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How would you remake C64 ROMs?

 
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adric22
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 3:58 pm    Post subject: How would you remake C64 ROMs? Reply with quote

OK.. So we've all had discussions on various Commodore 8-bits as to what should have been or could have been done differently, often resulting in increased cost of the machines, or delayed production.

This is just another theoretical thing I was thinking of. Lets say you have no say what-so-ever on the hardware, but you could change the ROMs in the C64 and put them in a time-machine back to 1981 or so. What would you change?

So far here's my list:
  • Auto-start from disk on bootup, assuming disk drive present and bootable disk inserted. (Much like the C128 did)
  • Upon failing to boot from disk, present a menu to the user with several options such as LOAD FILE, SAVE FILE, ENTER BASIC, ML MONITOR, DISK UTILITIES, etc. If the user picks to load a file, it would then give you a device selection, including tape and disk drives. If the user picked a disk drive, it would give the directory of that drive and allow them to scroll through the files and pick one to load. The disk utilities would be similar to midnight commander, giving the user the option to copy files from one location to another, rename, delete, etc.
  • faster load/save routines for disk and tape.
  • Graphics/sound commands for BASIC (much like C128 and Plus/4)


I realize this would increase the size of the ROM, maybe altering the hardware design a bit. But it would have made the computer a lot more useful and user-friendly rather than having the end-user always learn to type LOAD"*",8 for every disk that they use.
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groepaz
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
rather than having the end-user always learn to type LOAD"*",8 for every disk that they use.

and since stuff like that was precisely what created a generation of non retarded computer users - i wouldnt change anything at all.
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mistermsk
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

groepaz wrote:
Quote:
rather than having the end-user always learn to type LOAD"*",8 for every disk that they use.

and since stuff like that was precisely what created a generation of non retarded computer users - i wouldnt change anything at all.

110% agree.

BTW, there is already an auto-boot ROM out. Just hold the Commodore Key while loading to disengage it. I also made this happen on my MMC Replay. I made a rom that will autoboot as well. This basically has most things you just stated. I have JiffyDOS in my C=64 as well as my drives. I boot up, the MMC Replay autoloads the BIN that I flashed to one of the slots, it then runs the program that I embedded that auto-loads the disk. So I got the Auto-Start down, the Faster load/save down. The only problem with messing with the kernel you run into compatibility issues. I run different kernels as well and some just don't play nice with some store bought games. With the LOAD FILE, etc... This is done with JiffyDOS Wedge it has built in. With the Up arrow and the filename you can load a BASIC Program and run it. Right arrow and the filename you can save a BASIC Program. with the percent symbol and the filename you can load a ML program.

I know by doing this some of my games will not run. For instance, my store bought Ultimate II from when I was a child. You have to load the 2nd program on the disk. It even tells you that in the manual. Not LOAD"*",8,1. In additional, I have a lot of disks I made my self and they do not have menu programs on them.


Really, the only thing I would love to see is JiffyDOS and the Auto-start kernal merge. However, instead of Commodore Key to stop the auto-load, using the Commodore Key to Start it. I know this might be possible since I seen JiffyDOS overlays before. PiffyDOS and S-JiffyDOS.


Graphic and Sound commands would be nice but the other people running would also need it. That is like the Forth Language. All is good that you programmed it in Forth. However, you will need Forth Program/Cartridge to run it.
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dmackey828
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mistermsk wrote:
Really, the only thing I would love to see is JiffyDOS and the Auto-start kernal merge.

A few people have talked about that on IRC also. It's way outside my skill level to merge the two or trust me, I would do it in a second.
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hurminator
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ mistermsk :

Do you have a link for that autostart ROM? I would like to try it out in my EF3.
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mistermsk
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hurminator wrote:
@ mistermsk :

Do you have a link for that autostart ROM? I would like to try it out in my EF3.

Thread.
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mrsid
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd probably fail when trying to fit bash or zsh into 8K... Smile
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groepaz
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

but you could always reverse the scroll direction =P
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mistermsk
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An alternative for the graphic and loading would be also to make a program that adds the feature that you would load first. I seen many programs through the years do this. SAM has the SAY command. Lately someone did that with networking but I forgot the information on that one. In addition you could have it autostart another program automatically. You could call it something like C128.prg. Load this and you can make the calls just like you do with a C128 (or at least a few commands from the 128). If loaded and ran, you could have it check drive 8 for autostart.c128. If it is there it will auto-load that program. If not it will just drop to a C128-READY prompt. This way you don't need a hardware rom to use it. No sense limiting the people using it. Just put it in a D64 or on a real disk and your golden.
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly? Have Jiffydos installed stock, upgrade the basic interpreter to at least what the PETs had and since hardware is hands off but I could send tech back it would be the ability to address more ram (not sure if that would be hardware specific but...)
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 5:44 am    Post subject: Re: How would you remake C64 ROMs? Reply with quote

adric22 wrote:
So far here's my list:
  • Auto-start from disk on bootup,
  • Upon failing to boot from disk, present a menu
  • Graphics/sound commands for BASIC (much like C128 and Plus/4)

PLEASE NO!
The only thing in your list that makes sense is faster load/save. I wish they could have fixed their bug or their "fix" or whatever it was, and gone with the original design.
It would have been nice to have some of the jiffdos like shortcuts, otherwise no, don't change it. Especially anything that requires more rom.
And no, don't give me a menu on startup.
Some BASIC sound and gfx commands would have been nice, but would have required more ROM, so I'm fine without them.
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zaphod77
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do agree that auto-boot would be handy, but i think it should have been placed onto commdore run/stop.

The sx-64 did change the run key to boot disk instead, and it hardly broke anything.
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davidcallan
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm.. Shouldn't be hard... (as long as the space is there in the ROM) - and my wonderful Easyflash arrived the other day....

I wouldn't use any of the suggested keys - I'd use the SHIFT key to autostart. That way, shift-lock could be engaged if you wanted unattended startup, without messing up the standard BASIC boot.

Callan
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mike351
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

davidcallan wrote:
I wouldn't use any of the suggested keys - I'd use the SHIFT key to autostart. That way, shift-lock could be engaged if you wanted unattended startup, without messing up the standard BASIC boot.

I don't care for extra basic sound or graphics commands, however JiffyDos with Callans shift/shift lock autostart feature would be all I would want.

Mike
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike351 wrote:
I don't care for extra basic sound or graphics commands, however JiffyDos with Callans shift/shift lock autostart feature would be all I would want.

I've knocked up a rough rom image that now does this.
I nicked the rom routine for printer redirection (the @P command, which I (THINK) I've redirected to the ControlP screendump - don't have a CBM printer to check, and haven't tried it in Vice - only real silicon)

It's pretty rough ATM (as others can attest writing compact code is harder than writing bigger code, and I've only 40 odd bytes to play with), and more work is needed - but it works. Gotta move the code from the warmstart code to coldstart, though, or smarten up the code (probably the latter)

I can't post it here, of course, as I have no license to distribute the JiffyDOS ROM. I could knock up a quick program to patch the current JiffyDOS C64 ROM, and generate an patched dump image on disk, but I need to have a chat with Jim Brain before going too much further.

The Easyflash3 is AWESOME for this sort of development!!!

Ooroo
Callan
edit hmm - seems I broke the "*" (copy) command somewhere along the line, too..
edit:edit - found a workaround Very Happy
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