Chamelon facts thread

foody · Groupie in Training Joined: 06 Sep 2005 Posts: 128

B...but....Metal Dust and WINGS Sad

Wiesel · Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:54 am Post subject:

foody wrote:

B...but....Metal Dust and WINGS Sad

...are overrated. Metal Dust? Try R-Type, Delta, Katakis and myriads of other horizontal shooters.

WiNGs? Regular work has been done until 2004, last useful post was in january 2005. It's 2010 now, and the OS hasn't come near any useful point. Note that it's an OS. Such a thing needs support by developers, and they in turn require support from a broad userbase. Choosing SCPU isn't exactly the best move for "broad userbase". I consider WINGS academic. However, if the source is somehow portable, Chameleon will be an even more powerful platform to run it on. Still, I wouldn't count on it, and I would still doubt it's usefulness. TCP/IP without drivers for common networking cards? Please don't go there.

Jens

groepaz · Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:25 am Post subject:

Quote:

I consider WINGS academic.

it _IS_ - it was jolze's master thesis Smile

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hurminator · Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:30 pm Post subject:

I guess I don't care if it has true SCPU function (would be nice if it did), but mainly want it to speed up games that bog down, decrunching instantly, faster scrolling in word processors, and refresh/redraw rate in adventure games.

andym00 · Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:30 am Post subject:

The only thing stopping me from signing up for one right now is the Turbo functionality.. If it's only a marginal increase, say <2MHz then it's not for me.. Anything over that then sign me up Smile

I'm not expecting (or even wanting 20MHz) but anything around 2+Mhz would be nice for a few things..
So more details about this part alone would be nice since there's no mention of it in any detail other than there's Turbo functionality Smile

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Wiesel · Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 6:38 pm Post subject:

andym00 wrote:

I'm not expecting (or even wanting 20MHz) but anything around 2+Mhz would be nice for a few things..
So more details about this part alone would be nice since there's no mention of it in any detail other than there's Turbo functionality Smile

There are three speeds on Chameleon:

- standard speed, 100% original as with 6510

- 2MHz operation, compatible with 2MHz mode of C128 - even enabled with the same bit, allowing programs to run faster on C64, that normally would only benefit from a C128 in C64 mode.

- full speed: This is pushing the system to the limit, where the closest limit is set by memory performance. We're currently expecting something around 4MHz, and it may get up to maybe 10MHz if VGA output and floppy are completely switched off.

Jens

tronplayer · Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:53 pm Post subject:

I've been eyeing one of these for two years. I will definitely be purchasing one when and if it is released.

c64web · Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:10 am Post subject:

Wiesel wrote:

foody wrote:

B...but....Metal Dust and WINGS Sad

...are overrated. Metal Dust? Try R-Type, Delta, Katakis and myriads of other horizontal shooters.
Jens

All of the above pale in "Sound Effects", "Graphics" and "Speed Of Game Play" next
to Metal Dust played on the SCPU with the C64.

Also all of the above are also great C64 games and i love em, But the guys programming Metal Dust had a great deal more power at their finger tips with the SCPU a unfair advange when designing Metal Dust.

Super CPU emulation is not a high priority and that's fair enough, but it would be nice one
day to have the SCPU and Metal Dust available for all to use, even if it's just on the PC using Vice. Smile

I already have my Chameleon on back order. Smile

It's going to a real treat.
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Fröhn · Grandmaster of C64 Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 1950

c64web wrote:

Wiesel wrote:

...are overrated. Metal Dust? Try R-Type, Delta, Katakis and myriads of other horizontal shooters.

All of the above pale in "Sound Effects", "Graphics" and "Speed Of Game Play" next to Metal Dust played on the SCPU with the C64.

What about playability? Last I heard many people couldn't even do the first level.

groepaz · Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:04 am Post subject:

Quote:

All of the above pale in "Sound Effects", "Graphics" and "Speed Of Game Play" next to Metal Dust played on the SCPU with the C64.

but whats left if you arent a fan of W:E and once you realised half of the gfx is plain katakis ? "gameplay" that sucks so hard, noone i know even bothered to try completing the first level.
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c64web · Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:15 am Post subject:

I can reach the fifth level on most attempts and its a battle getting there with men still left,
but i am really enjoying the challenge. Smile

If this was any other game i would have completed it weeks ago and put
it back in it's bag, but it's not! so i look forward to getting a few frames further
next time, notice i said frames and not level's.

P.S when i first got Metal Dust home i too cursed it, now i love it and look forward to completing it and not. Wink

Let's not get too far out of topic here. Smile

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DanSolo · Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:27 pm Post subject:

To second an opinion from earlier: just give me a slightly faster C64. No SCPU compatibility required. The number of times I want C64 programs to run faster will be about a million times as often as I'll use an SCPU program.

c64web · Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:02 pm Post subject:

I use the ide64 extensively for transferring files across usb instead of x15XX cables,
are we going to be able to do the same with the Chameleon's USB link

ie: Transfering c64 files from the PC to a CMD HD/1541 via the USB link with the Chameleon
connected to a C64.

Are we looking at a 4-8 week wait for stock to filter into suppliers. ?

enjoy
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groepaz · Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:11 pm Post subject:

Quote:

ie: Transfering c64 files from the PC to a CMD HD/1541 via the USB link with the Chameleon connected to a C64.

maybe, but thats not very high on the list. afterall you can simply copy whatever you want to transfer onto SD card.

Quote:

Are we looking at a 4-8 week wait for stock to filter into suppliers. ?

?
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c64web · Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:25 am Post subject:

Quote:

Are we looking at a 4-8 week wait for stock to filter into suppliers. ?

An attempt on locking down a date on availability Smile

Looking forward to this one.
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Justin · Groupie in Training Joined: 10 Jun 2009 Posts: 77

What happens when I plug it into a 128? It would be fantastic if the VGA output on this could also solve the annoying RGBI 80 column output problem.

Wiesel · Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:40 am Post subject:

C128 is the lowest on the list - that machine has severe timing problems and ground bouncing on the signals. I doubt that we will be able to make it compatible with the C128. Consider Chameleon a genuine C64 cartridge.

We got a good step further in development: The prototype hardware did a cold-start without "life support" recently, and I did more work on the PCB. The "release candidate" board data is in design rule check at the board house right now.

Meanwhile, we're working out the case modifications and a hot discussion arose over at Forum64. I just don't know if we should include the two LED drills and the cut-out for RR-Net with all the cases, or if this should be left up to the user. Making two versions is out of question for price reasons. What do you think?

I hope to have the first sample cases today, so I can post a picture.

Jens

thebeck · Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:29 am Post subject:

Wiesel wrote:

...

Meanwhile, we're working out the case modifications and a hot discussion arose over at Forum64. I just don't know if we should include the two LED drills and the cut-out for RR-Net with all the cases, or if this should be left up to the user. Making two versions is out of question for price reasons. What do you think?

...

Jens

I think a good compromise would be to make ~90% cut. Those who get the add-on can just punch out the corresponding area on the cartridge.

I for one would like to use PAL mode on my NTSC c64. Just disable the VIC II when in this mode so I can still use my c64 keyboard and joysticks please.

Nathan

Wiesel · Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:42 pm Post subject: first case samples

Hi,

I posted these pictures on Forum64, and the discussion is pretty much over. Most (if not all) of the people agree that it looks OK with or without RR-Net installed, so I have enough supporters for "cut-outs will always be made" now Wink

This case is preliminary. What you don't see in the picture is that the inside of the case is also modded, so re-opening can be accomplished without damaging the cart.
The cut-out for the RJ45 latch will be a little smaller, and slight modifications will be made to the LED holes (changes in the order of a few tenths of a millimeter). Alltogether, this should give a good impression of what the final product will look like.

Jens

saehn · Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: first case samples

Wiesel wrote:

Hi, I posted these pictures on Forum64, and the discussion is pretty much over. Most (if not all) of the people agree that it looks OK with or without RR-Net installed, so I have enough supporters for "cut-outs will always be made" now Wink

One final suggestion regarding cuts... what if you made it so that the RR-Net access "panel" could either be left on or twisted off, such as what would be done with the parts that come with plastic models? Just an idea. Smile

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Wiesel · Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:00 pm Post subject: Re: first case samples

saehn wrote:

One final suggestion regarding cuts... what if you made it so that the RR-Net access "panel" could either be left on or twisted off, such as what would be done with the parts that come with plastic models? Just an idea. Smile

Note that these cut-outs are milled from the full cases - a change to the injection mold has NOT been made (would be way too expensive). Milling always involves a certain thickness of the milling tool, in this case 2.4mm, leaving pretty much no cover for the RJ45. Like I said, I like it the way it is, and my decision has been made.

Jens

mistermsk · Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:05 pm Post subject:

Great job! Cool

I can not wait for this to go on sale.

saehn · Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:49 pm Post subject: Re: first case samples

Wiesel wrote:

saehn wrote:

One final suggestion regarding cuts... what if you made it so that the RR-Net access "panel" could either be left on or twisted off, such as what would be done with the parts that come with plastic models? Just an idea. Smile

Note that these cut-outs are milled from the full cases - a change to the injection mold has NOT been made (would be way too expensive). Milling always involves a certain thickness of the milling tool, in this case 2.4mm, leaving pretty much no cover for the RJ45. Like I said, I like it the way it is, and my decision has been made.

Gotcha. Looks great as it is. I figure if someone is going to buy one of these, they should go all out and buy one with the RR-Net anyway.
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c64web · Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 6:34 am Post subject: Re: first case samples

Looking good jens !!

Quote:

re-opening can be accomplished without damaging the cart.

Nothing worse than breaking those little tabs or leaving divots in the case when
cleaning or upgrading.

As for the cut out for the RR-Net. The buyer could simply supa glue a small piece of black plastic over the cut out, if their not going to get a RR-Net add-on. The trick would be to glue
only one half of the plastic so the cartridge can still be opened.

Keep up the great work.

Shane
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redrumloa · Groupie in Training Joined: 22 Jun 2005 Posts: 121

Wiesel wrote:

C128 is the lowest on the list - that machine has severe timing problems and ground bouncing on the signals. I doubt that we will be able to make it compatible with the C128. Consider Chameleon a genuine C64 cartridge.

Get the 64 version out the door, then consider adding 128 mode support. JMO, I would love to see it.

Quote:

Meanwhile, we're working out the case modifications and a hot discussion arose over at Forum64. I just don't know if we should include the two LED drills and the cut-out for RR-Net with all the cases, or if this should be left up to the user. Making two versions is out of question for price reasons. What do you think?

I would say include the cut out and drill holes for rr-net on all cases, absolutely.

-Edit- I read further and see this decision has been made, good.