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I'm in search of the "MATH V" disk of the Commodore Educational Software public domain series. Actually all I need is the file "LIMITS.C3" - this file is corrupt in the only copy I've been able to find online, the one at c64preservation.com.

Please reply or send a PM if you can help with this one file. I'll pass it on to Pete, or if you'd rather send it to him for the archive, I'll pick it up there.

Many thanks.

Ray
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I'm the one who supplied the disk image, along with several others. I checked out my disk image and also found errors on that image. I will check my original to see if that is the problem or if I just had a bad transfer. However, the disks are at my parents home so I may not be able to check for a few weeks until I go home.

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Thanks, hurminator, I put a watch on this thread and will watch for an update from you.
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Math V has been provided by charliehopke!

I verified the 14 clean files from the old error disk against this new one and they're all perfect, and "LIMITS.C3" is a good working copy on the new one, so the search is over.

I've forwarded the math_v.d64 to Pete to add to the c64preservation.com archive; meantime, anyone that wants it can grab it here.

Thanks, Charlie!

Ray
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It is added. Thanks for the sleuthing!

Pete
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No way man, guys like me should be thanking guys like you and hurminator and r.cade for keeping this rare old stuff alive. Until I found Pete's page I didn't know that many different titles even existed. I don't know about you, but I'm extremely nostalgic about these particular disks. I bought several of them brand new at the K-Mart in Glendive, Montana in 1984 and they really take me back. I'll even go so far as to confessing to getting out "Games I" and booting up "Atari II" a couple times a year :)

NV
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To anyone still interested in this thread: I did a little more legwork...

It's the 40th block of "LIMITS.C3" that is corrupt on hurminator's copy at track 8, sector 18. Since the two files are bit for bit identical except for the 70 error bytes, I took the same 40th block from Charlie's copy at 9,6 and wrote it to 8,18 on hurminator's copy after correcting the next sector link. Then I clipped the 683 byte error log off of the end of the newly repaired d64, returning it to 171k like all the rest, and made absolutely no other changes. So: it's precisely what hurminator would have sent Pete in the first place, if he hadn't gotten a disk error.

Further: When a disk was slow formatted using the old original C64 immediate mode command to the 1541, each blank sector had one byte $4B followed by 255 bytes of $01, so in a sector editor it looks like:

Kaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa etc.

But the later fast format programs would fill the sectors with all zeroes:

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ etc.

Four points:

1) Charlie's disk has zeroes in the empty sectors. hurminator's disk has the original Kaaaa pattern.

2) Charlie's has the generic name "MATHEMATICS" whereas hurminator's has the correct name "MATH V".

3) Charlie's has leftover data from deleted files in some of the unallocated sectors. On hurminator's disk, every unallocated sector is the unused original Kaaaaaaa pattern.

4) Charlie's has a deleted filename at the end of 18,4 whereas hurminator's doesn't.

In view of all of this evidence I'm thoroughly convinced that hurminator's is the correct archival copy, and charlie's is a later "filecopy" version that is not needed since all fifteen files are identical.

Charlie! Don't take this to mean I appreciate what you did any less. Without your single sector - 70 bytes of it! - this disk would still be in error. Thank you, again.

Anyone that wants the final fix mentioned above can snag it here.

NV (who just might have too much time on his hands)
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Thanks for the research and fix. I have not been able to check out my original yet, but am very curious if it is faulty too.

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ENGLISH_I

Continuing research on these Educational Software public domain disks, this time regarding ENGLISH_I

Pete, on your site you have:

ENGLISH_I.ZIP
ENGLISH_I_ALTERNATE.ZIP
ENGLISH_I_ALTERNATE_2.ZIP

I've done checksums and determined that all files are identical on all three disks with the sole exception of "FLASHER.C3" which is the same on the first two disks, but different on the "ALTERNATE_2" disk. The difference is just three bytes: a frisky student changed "DRUM" to "DAMN" in this flash card type program and then resaved it.

Further: The two alternates have the all zero @@@@@@ pattern in the unallocated sectors, whereas the primary disk has the original Kaaaaa pattern.

Also: The primary disk has the correct disk header "ENGLISH I" whereas both alternates have something else.

So, I'm of the opinion that ENGLISH_I.ZIP is the correct original version, and that the two alternates are extraneous. I have deleted them from my site.

NV
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Noted!

Thanks for the research!
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Thanks for the thumbs up, eslapion. Next up:

ENGLISH_V

On Pete's site:

ENGLISH_V.ZIP
ENGLISH_V_ALTERNATE.ZIP

All thirteen files are identical, so again it comes down to the details. Even though a spot check shows that the files are laid out on the disks the same, the alternate is full of leftover trash from deleted files in the unallocated sectors. For that and all of the same reasons as ENGLISH_I above, the primary disk ENGLISH_V.ZIP is the winner. ENGLISH_V_ALTERNATE.ZIP is extraneous and I have deleted it from my site.

I did note one slightly interesting little variance: The primary file has the factory format Kaaaaaaa pattern in most of the unallocated sectors, but not all. The four on track 1 have a leading zero instead: @aaaaaaaaa etc. I've seen it before but it's been a long time; I'm not sure if it's the result of a factory format. Still, it's a clear winner over the alternate.

NV
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And now for a change of pace:

ENGLISH_IV

On Pete's site:

ENGLISH_IV.ZIP
ENGLISH_IV_ALTERNATE.ZIP

All of the files are identical between these disks with these three exceptions:

The primary has WORD_LADDER.C3 - the alternate does not have it.

The alternate has SCRAMBLE_4.C3 - the primary does not have it.

(Neither disk has nearly enough space to hold the file it lacks that the other disk has.)

They both have SCRAMBLE_5.C3 but the data elements have been slightly rearranged:



Both disks have either zero bytes or leftover trash from deleted files in unallocated sectors.

So, these two disks finish in a tie :)

NV
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I've just added (gasp) five disks to my Commodore Educational Public Domain Software page. No, not five complete factory disks, I'm sorry to say. Four disks of hodgepodge and one newly discovered SCIENCE_? disk that has three corrupt programs. That's the downside. The upside is that it also has seven programs that don't appear anywhere else in Pete's archive or mine! Plus there are a few goodies laying around in the other four disks:

NV's C= Software page

C'mon over and haul it all away, Pete, I need an offsite backup anyway :)

NV
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Sweet! That's a relief :)

hurminator, I also want to gather and archive scans of the packaging and docs, if any, as well as the actual disk face showing the C= label, for all Commodore published software. If you have anything you care to contribute please get scanning! :) and give me a shout where I can snag it and add it to the archive.

Ray
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Here's a list of the boxed PD disks I have for the C64 releases:

Science I-IV
Math I-VIII
English I-VII
Computer Science
Technology
Games I-III
Business
History
Geography
Word Machine
Name Machine
Easy Script
Easy Spell

Let me know if I can help. Is the archive online somewhere?

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Hey GA, yes, the original archive is at Pete Rittwage's site which is where I found it a couple weeks ago. I immediately leeched the entire directory! Since then I have been examining it and making suggestions to Pete for disks that he could eliminate, and also adding to it where I have material he doesn't have, such as the five disks mentioned just above. Here is my C= published software archive which will also grow to include all of the Test/Demo and other C= published material I ever come across.

If you'd care to rip those disks you have I'd be delighted to go through and see how they fit into what we currently have. Some that we have do indeed need upgrading because they have been filecopied and are no longer true copies of the original factory Commodore published disks; leftover junk in unallocated sectors and so forth. Even if yours have been filecopied I may find different versions of the individual programs; we already have a couple things going on in that area.

And as to scanning, well, you can be a real hero here! I want to host scans of the packaging material, doc sheets if any, and even the actual disks themselves showing the C= label. Anything at all you care to contribute in this area will be greatly appreciated. These source materials are getting scarce so I hope to back them up thoroughly for the next generation. A hundred sites are hosting twenty thousand games, but these very important little bits of C= history don't seem to be getting much attention. I'd like to see that change.

Thank you kindly for your reply.

Ray
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Everyone interested in this thread is invited to click here to see the new thread I've just started on this topic, including my newly discovered "Business" disk (which I hope you'll grab and add to your archive, Pete!).
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