C64 Emulator Palette from my NTSC 1702

Rekrul · Master of C64 Joined: 05 Aug 2009 Posts: 1120

Fröhn wrote:

Looks very different to a real C64's palette.

Well, I don't have a C64 hooked up to use for comparison. Unfortunately, the only colors I could adjust from memory were the default text & background colors. Those look very close to how I remember my C64 looking. The others I just had to guess. Most games seem to look like what I recall though.

maiki · Groupie in Training Joined: 01 Nov 2008 Posts: 132

Isn't it a nonsence to build a pallettte upon a analogue monitor output? Monitor output which can have hundreds of different settings for colours... You should build a palette reading your C-64 hardware itself I think...

groepaz · Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:45 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Isn't it a nonsence to build a pallettte upon a analogue monitor output? Monitor output which can have hundreds of different settings for colours... You should build a palette reading your C-64 hardware itself I think

YES. thats the most essential thing to understand, indeed.
_________________

http://www.hitmen-console.org http://rr.pokefinder.org
http://magicdisk.untergrund.net http://ftp.pokefinder.org

r.cade · Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:54 pm Post subject:

groepaz wrote:

Quote:

Isn't it a nonsence to build a pallettte upon a analogue monitor output? Monitor output which can have hundreds of different settings for colours... You should build a palette reading your C-64 hardware itself I think

YES. thats the most essential thing to understand, indeed.

The whole chain must be taken into account. Recently it was discovered there are at least two different color decoder/chip methods used by TV/monitor makers. The difference explains what made my palette different vs. the original VICE palette.
_________________

-
Pete Rittwage
C64 Preservation Project
Register your C64 today - http://c64preservation.com/registry

mrsid · Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:07 pm Post subject:

maiki wrote:

Isn't it a nonsence to build a pallettte upon a analogue monitor output? Monitor output which can have hundreds of different settings for colours... You should build a palette reading your C-64 hardware itself I think...

Exactly. Many people who diss the Pepto palette haven't understood yet that it's what comes out at the back of the C64, not what's visible on screen. Color saturation, brightness, contract, gamma and some blur needs to be applied afterwards, because that's what the TV/monitor also does.

dJOS · Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:48 am Post subject:

groepaz wrote:

Quote:

The PAL palettes I've seen have been kind of drab compared to what I see on my NTSC CBM monitors (at default settings)

which like i said before is kinda weird - because infact the color generation in vice IS modelled after how it, according to bob yannes, works in NTSC (not pal!)

I find this interesting as I agree that the VICE palette looks a bit drab and Im using a fully colour calibrated LCD screen (I have an iOneD2 Colorimeter with fully automatic iMatch software).
_________________

64 w/ 1541 Ultimate-II inc Tape Adapter, JiffyDOS, 1541 Disk Drive, 1531 Datasette, C64 Flyer Net Modem, ZoomFloppy

trebor · Newbie Joined: 21 May 2012 Posts: 27

groepaz wrote:

maybe i found an explaination ... appearently there exist (atleast) two different color decoder matrices in ntsc world.

default decoder matrix:
http://hitmen.c02.at/linked/c6...lt.bmp.png

SONY CXA2025 decoder matrix:
http://hitmen.c02.at/linked/c6...25.bmp.png

these have been generated using proper ntsc color generation (according to peptos article, but using YIQ color space and NTSC gamma), the only difference between the two is the decoder matrix (or in other words: different monitor/tv)

Sorry to resurrect a somewhat older thread. Using WinVice 2.3, is the second decoder (SONY) matrix implemented? Can it be enabled via vice.ini? I went through all the documentation, but see no mention of it.

I am an NTSC user that is of the 'brighter' palette/matrix group. I have been able to achieve something similar with CRT/PAL emulation enabled with the default palette, by bumping Contrast and Saturation from 1000 to 1500, and adjusting the tint from 1000 to 650. I also darkened scanlines to 334 from the default 667 setting to help balance the end results and acquire a 'more to what I was used to' image.

Of course, everything is full screen displayed. Keeping Aspect Ratio and True Aspect Ratio checked. I'm running 1920x1080 32-bit.

Again, any information or news respecting the other/brighter (SONY) Matrix would be appreciated. Or if anyone has the values from that Matrix, that of course would be great as well.

EDIT: I just wanted to make it clear that if values are provided for use via external palette, it would be useful only if values are accurately provided with CRT emulation turned on, not off.

The palette file provided by r.cade/Pete gives colors close to what I was used to if CRT emulation is off, but once you turn on CRT emulation it (obviously) changes the palette. CRT emulation being on is essential, IMHO.

Unfortunately, I believe most palettes provided are without accounting for CRT emulation being turned on.

Although probably a moot point anyhow, as I prefer one that is calculated properly as it is done now in WinVice. The only additional feature I'm looking to enable is the other decoder matrix that exists for NTSC users, the "SONY CXA2025 decoder matrix".

Thanks for reading, and again I appreciate any information or direction regarding any of the above possible options.