Wolfeman's MMC Replay Game Testing Thread

Wolfeman · Last edited by Wolfeman on Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:04 pm; edited 5 times in total

First off, I'm a gamer, I have no interest in testing functions that do not involve playing games so, if you're looking for other functionality, this won't be the place to find answers, however, I would be happy to help someone with testing if they have some specific tests they would like me to make just send me a PM. Let's keep this thread focused on Games using the MMC Replay

My hardware:
1C64, 1C64C, 1 C128 [all NTSC]
tested and reliable 1571 II floppy drive
tested and reliable stack of mint 5.25 floppies
Commodore 1702 Monitor w/ rear composite video cable
Wico Joystick
MMC Replay V0.54 Bios
Macintosh running the Power64 emulator and the DiskImagry64 software for OSX

Testing using three Memory Cards:

64MB SanDisk SD FAT16

4GB SanDisk MicroSD with SD adaptor FAT32

2GB MMC Mobile Dual Voltage with SD adaptor FAT16

Tests:
-------------------------------------------------
Run Game from Memory Card | No Plugins

Run Game from Memory Card | Use Plugins

Copy Game to Floppy | No Plugins

Copy Game to Floppy | Use Plugins <- First round of testing shows this will not work as all D64 write plugins seem to crash, any help or advice out there?

Run Game from Copied Floppy | No MMC Replay
-------------------------------------------------

Downloaded Top 50 Downloaded Games from:
http://www.c64.com/games/no-fr...amp;main=1

Downloaded Game Relevant Plugins from Protovision:
http://www.protovision-online....wstart.htm

Plugins used for testing downloaded from Protovision. I am testing D64 write, txt read, dfi, T64 v4 and the MMC/TNT Browser

I can confirm that the MMC Browser, nicknamed the TNT Browser will work with an actual MMC Mobile memory card, not any variety of SD card.

One type of SD card has been verified to work as well, a picture of the SD can be found here:

http://pics.neobit.net/images/...P00190.jpg

This was verified by a friend who runs vesalia.de

I would very much like to compile a database of working cards that will handle the MMC Browser on the MMC Replay, so far we have two, get yourself a true MMC Mobile memory card formatted to FAT16 or find the "takeMS 60x 1GB SD" card - pictured above for reference only.

[b]update: I need to correct the above information. The picture included is NOT the actual card that worked, it was just reported to me that a 60x card by the same manufacturer is what worked for them. The photo is just for reference

Download MMC/TNT Browser from: http://www.retrohackers.com/fo...d73e8765c8

Currently the MMC/TNT Browser is the only way to reliably run T64 files, however, some T64 files can be launched from a FAT16 SD card using V4 of the plugin but reliability is very low.

Download V4 T64 plugin from this link: http://c64.frequenzspeicher.de..._v0.04.bin
[/b]

I have also tested the native cartridge launcher on the MMC Replay with pretty good results.
I tested CRT files downloaded from: http://www.mayhem64.co.uk/main.htm
Anything that was not the right size returned an error of "No 8k or 16k Rom". Cartridge Games like Double Dragon, Shadow of the Beast, Ninja Remix, and a bunch of others will not run. The CRT plugin for the MMC64& RetroReplay is far less reliable than the MMC Replay internal CRT load function so don't bother with it.

Here are the first 10 games from top 50 C64.com Downloads. This is a work in progress and will be updated as I test each game with each possible configuration
I will list a second and third source for problematic games and list download links to try to get the best possible compatibility out of the MMCR.

I don't think I will be as maticulous on games that run from the MMC Replay right off the bat with no problems. It also seems that unless someone can tell me how
to get D64 write plugins to work correctly, I will not list those results or try them anymore after these first 10 games as it seems to be useless.

If I get a game to work from copying it to floppy on one memory card, I am am unlikely to test it on another memory card and will move on to the next test.
If someone has a specific test they'd like me to run, please respond to this thread with your ideas. Hopefully we can get some of these issues verified and repeated
by other MMC replay users to differentiate bugs from bad disk images, hardware errors and bad floppies to actual MMC Replay bugs.

update1: I had originally planned to time the disk writing process with the various plugins but after finding they don't work, I'm not going to post write times anymore. Basic rule of thumb is it takes about 10 Minutes to write 1 disk image that is about 35 Tracks. Where floppy copying crashed, I tried to write down what track and what sector. I found that when a game does not write correctly and it is not due to the hardware, the disk image will crash at the same place each time.

update2:It is important that you use a fresh SD if you find you have errors when trying to write from a disk image to floppy, particularly if you find that the errors happen in the same track and sector regardless of what floppy disk you use.

If you get an error, back up the contents of your SD/MMC, erase it and then re-copy FRESH files on to it and then make your disk image backups to floppy.

Due to this conclusion I am no longer going to worry about trying to test each and every memory card I have unless I get persistent errors on some future game test so I will be removing all listings here of alternate memory card testing .

Boulder Dash D64

RunFromCardNP: 64MB Yes 1+F3 | 2GB Yes 1+F3 | 4GB Yes 1+F3

Floppy Launch: N/A | Notes: Game runs perfectly from all memory cards launching from mounted D64 image from MMC Replay. Disk write crashed at various points depending on which memory card was used. this was replicated 2 and 3 times in every case where floppy copying failed. Update: as stated in the updates to this thread, this copying error can be fixed if you erase your SD card and write fresh files to it.

Ghostbusters D64

RunFromCardNP: 64MB Yes 1+F3 Graphic issues | 2GB Y / N | 4GB Y / N

Floppy Launch: N/A | Notes: Graphics seem odd, cars in the shop when you start game are very blotchy, looks the same on Power64 emulator.
I did not progress past that.

The Great Giana Sisters D64

RunFromCardNP: 64MB Yes 1+F3 Graphic issues | 2GB Y / N | 4GB Y / N

Floppy Launch: N/A | Notes: Mushrooms and blocks have weird yellow graphic glitch spots. Power64 emulator does not replicate this.

Impossible Mission D64

RunFromCardNP: 64MB Y 1+F3 - seeks 1541 drive? | 2GB Y / N | 4GB Y / N

Floppy Launch: N/A | Notes: Game runs perfectly launching from mounted D64 image from MMC Replay. No further testing done.

Commando D64

RunFromCardNP: 64MB Yes 1+F3 | 2GB Y / N | 4GB Y / N

Floppy Launch: N/A | Notes: Game runs perfectly launching from mounted D64 image from MMC Replay. No further testing done.

Californmia Games D64

RunFromCardNP: 64MB No - asks for d1/D2 | 2GB Y / N | 4GB Y / N

Floppy CopyNP: yes

Floppy Launch: Yes | Notes: Tested "Remember" disks only | fastload/skip intro | Launched practice event halfpipe. I conducted no further tests, there were no graphic problems or loading issues I could find.

Summer Games D64

RunFromCardNP: 64MB NO - Crash @ Events Screen | 2GB Y / N | 4GB Y / N

Floppy CopyNP: yes

Floppy Launch: No | Notes: Launches "*",8,1 | Intro comes up, there are white block graphic blotches in opening ceremony screen, these do NOT show on emulator. Game crashes on events screen. I tried 3 floppies, all copied fine, but will not run past intro. Can anyone recommend a different kernal routine to try? I know this is a popular game, its not on my top favs list but I will come back to it for further testing with different releases.

Bruce Lee D64

RunFromCardNP: 64MB Yes 1+F3 | 2GB Yes 1+F3 | 4GB Y / N

Floppy Launch: N/A | Notes: Game seems to run perfectly from MMC Replay. Did not test floppy copy.

Winter Games D64

RunFromCardNP: 64MB N0 - crash after intro | 2GB Y / N | 4GB N0 - crash after intro

Floppy CopyNP: yes

Floppy Launch: No | Notes: Tried writing 2 floppies from MMC card. Game copied fine. After kernal launch, game seems to load and then
crashes at familiar blue "READY" screen where any command comes back with syntax error. Tried with fastload and no fastload. As with the Summer Games, I'll get back to this one for further tests.

Bubble Bobble D64

RunFromCardNP: 64MB Yes 1+F3 | 2GB Y / N | 4GB Y / N

Floppy Launch: N/A | Notes: Game seems to run perfectly from mounted D64 image from MMC Replay. Did not test floppy copy.

Wolfeman · Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:04 pm Post subject:

Here are the first round test results for the next batch of 10 games.

One thing that has become evident is that the "REMEMBER" scene releases with intros by "JACK ALIEN" are by far the most compatible games to run on the MMC Replay. They also contain excellent intro instructions and trainers which really makes playing these releases all the more fun.

I tried to search for FTP sites that had a complete "REMEMBER" collection but I can't find them in one place using pokefinder.org so if anyone knows where to get them, let me know.

Some games have graphic glitches reported here that do not show on an emulator. I have not yet tested these games on alternate C64 units but I will and report back here when tests are concluded.

Arkanoid D64
RunFromCard: 64MB Yes 1+F3 | 2GB Y / N | 4GB Y / N

Floppy Launch: N/A | Notes: Runs flawlessly from mounted D64 image

Aztec Challenge D64
RunFromCard: 64MB Yes 1+F3 | 2GB Y / N | 4GB Y / N

Floppy Launch: N/A | Notes: Runs flawlessly from mounted D64 image

Barbarian D64
RunFromCard: 64MB Yes See Notes | 2GB Y / N | 4GB Y / N

Floppy Launch: N/A | Notes: Fastloader crashed to familiar blue 'READY' screen. If you mount D64 image and then scroll down the file list to "BARBARIAN I.PRG" + "BARBARIAN II.PRG" and laucnh one of those, the game seems to launmch fine and run. I did not test beyond the first level.

Boulder Dash 2 D64
RunFromCard: 64MB Yes 1+F3 | 2GB Y / N | 4GB Y / N

Floppy Launch: N/A | Notes: Loads very quickly, runs perfectly.

Defender of the Crown D64
RunFromCard: 64MB Yes See Notes | 2GB Y / N | 4GB Y / N

Floppy Copy: 64MB YES x2

Floppy Launch: Yes | Notes: ESI version launched when mounted. FCS version crashes on loading game. Since this is a two disk game I do not know how to run it from mounted image so I copied to a floppy, process took 10mins per disk. Game launched from floppy fine with no issues.

Ghosts'n Goblins D64
RunFromCard: 64MB Yes 1+F3 | 2GB Y / N | 4GB Y / N

Floppy Launch: N/A | Notes: Works great, trainer helps a great deal for this very hard game.

International Karate Plus D64
RunFromCard: 64MB Yes 1+F3 | 2GB Y / N | 4GB Y / N

Floppy Launch: N/A | Notes: Jack Alien strikes again with another perfect loading game with great instructions and trainer built in to intro.

The Last Ninja D64
RunFromCard: 64MB Yes See Notes | 2GB Y / N | 4GB Y / N

Floppy Copy: 64MB Yes

Floppy Launch: Yes | Notes: Two releases in this download. "Triad" + "CCS". Both have graphic glitches on menu screen which are not present in emulator. CCS version copied fine to floppy and since this is a multi disk game, that is the only way to play the full game.

Paperboy D64
RunFromCard: 64MB Yes 1+F3 | 2GB Y / N | 4GB Y / N

Floppy Launch: N/A | Notes: Loads quick, looks good. calls to floppy drive during load but no problems with mounted disk image.

Raid Over Moscow D64
RunFromCard: 64MB Yes 1+F3 | 2GB Y / N | 4GB Y / N

Floppy Launch: N/A | Notes: Two releases in this download: "Remember" + "The Radiating Rader". "REM" loads fine, graphics perfecrt. did not test other release.

Wolfeman · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:54 am Post subject:

I learned some important things about how the MMC replay works over the past 24 hrs.

It is important that you use a fresh SD if you find you have errors when trying to write from a disk image to floppy, particularly if you find that the errors happen in the same track and sector regardless of what floppy disk you use.

If you get an error, back up the contents of your SD/MMC, erase it and then re-copy FRESH files on to it and then make your disk image backups to floppy.

Due to this conclusion I am no longer going to worry about trying to test each and every memory card I have unless I get persistent errors on some future game test so I will be removing all listings here of alternate memory card testing . So far, the only differences in memory cards are with plugins not working on FAT32 and the TNT Browser only working on MMC Mobile. I will of course continue testing and add to this list as warranted.

Below is the third batch of 10 games. I had a HUGE problem with Maniac Mansion This game is incompatible with the MMC replay as far as I can tell, see my notes below.

1942 D64
RunFromCard: 64MB Yes 1+3

Floppy Launch: N/A | Notes: Flawless "remember" release

Barbarian 2 D64
RunFromCard: 64MB No - see notes

Floppy Copy: 64MB yes

Floppy Launch: No | Notes: 2 releases in download. "REM" + "SCG". REM crashes after intro. SCG loads trainer then intro, two barbarians intro screen then when you choose character, it crashes, screen shows colored mess/static.

Game in emulator is finicky as well. full 1541 emulation must be on.

Blue Max D64
RunFromCard: 64MB Yes 1+3

Floppy Launch: N/A | Notes: Perfect

Boulder dash 3 D64
RunFromCard: 64MB Yes 1+3

Floppy Launch: N/A | Notes: Flawless

Donkey Kong D64
RunFromCard: 64MB Yes 1+3

Floppy Launch: N/A | Notes: Perfect

The Last Ninja 2 D64 Two Disks
RunFromCard: 64MB Yes See Notes
Floppy Copy: 64MB yes, both disks copied fine

Floppy Launch: Yes| Notes: Game will launch from MMC R but to play full two disk game you must first copy to floppy to run.

There were graphic glitches in the inventory menu of the game similar to the Last Ninja 1. Glitches were not there when checked with the emu.

Maniac Mansion D64
RunFromCard: 64MB No - See notes

Floppy Copy: 64MB Yes, floppies copied once I cleared flash and wrote fresh files to SD

Floppy Launch: No| Notes: downloaded 4 more versions from http://noname.c64.org/csdb/release/?id=13840

I've never had so much trouble with any game and I've never spent so much time trying to fix a game but since this game was one of my wife's favorites as a child, [she played the more robust CD version] I had to chase the bugs down.

I learned that an SD or MMC card that has had files written to it at different times caused problems when copying to floppy. I got numerous crashes from all memory cards at the SAME track and sector locations for each card per file until I tried a FRESH SD card and then it worked with no crashing on floppy copy.

Ultimately I could not get the game to recognize side 2 [the game asks for "side 1", but it means the next disk]. It simply did not work. I tried to get this game to work and spent way too many hours on it.

Q: why is it when I launch disk1 of MM in the emulator, it gets to the choose character screen, but when I load disk1 in actual hardware after copying the d64 image to floppy, it asks me to "insert side 1 and press joystick button to continue"
I thought I already DID insert side one so why would it ask for side one? wtf?

Q: why is disk 2 of MM garbled when I mount it and check the contents with the MMC R? and why is it not recognized when the prompt for side 1 comes up? is it because it isn't side 1 or it isn't copied right? if it's not what the program wants to be inserted , what do I do?

Pac-Man D64
RunFromCard: 64MB Yes 1+3

Floppy Launch: N/A | Notes: Perfect pac-man action

Rambo First Blood 2 D64
RunFromCard: 64MB Yes 1+3
Floppy Launch: N/A | Notes: Works fine but there are minor graphic glitches that do not appear in emu.

Spy VS Spy D64
RunFromCard: 64MB Yes 1+3

Floppy Launch: N/A| Notes: Works great. I like this version better than the NES version.

groepaz · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:18 am Post subject:

Quote:

Q: why is disk 2 of MM garbled when I mount it and check the contents with the MMC R?

if i recall correctly MM uses the directory track for data on side 2, so it's "garbled" - because there is no directory.

oh and, you can save yourself the trouble with testing any games that are just one file - they do all work (possibly not from a d64, but certainly as a plain .prg)
_________________

http://www.hitmen-console.org http://rr.pokefinder.org
http://magicdisk.untergrund.net http://ftp.pokefinder.org

Wolfeman · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:36 am Post subject:

groepaz wrote:

Quote:

Q: why is disk 2 of MM garbled when I mount it and check the contents with the MMC R?

if i recall correctly MM uses the directory track for data on side 2, so it's "garbled" - because there is no directory.

oh and, you can save yourself the trouble with testing any games that are just one file - they do all work (possibly not from a d64, but certainly as a plain .prg)

Thanks for the info on the data track, I've seen one or two other disk images with the same issue. Do you have any idea how to correctly copy it to a real floppy? The MMC R can't seem to handle it for some reason, unless there is some trick I'm not aware of.

As for not testing .prg, I'm aware of that. This is more of a all around test to see how it handles various games. The top 50 downloads from C64.com are all D64 images so, even though some games are a no-brainer, I'm still going to run through them all because even if a PRG runs, it is not guranteed that there will be no glitches or odd behavior. Only a few of the D64 images have a single .prg on them anyway, many have multiple with trainer files and high score savers, et al.

This needs to be done as no one that can find is doing it and reporting on it.

thanks for the input Smile

groepaz · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:47 am Post subject:

Quote:

Thanks for the info on the data track, I've seen one or two other disk images with the same issue. Do you have any idea how to correctly copy it to a real floppy? The MMC R can't seem to handle it for some reason, unless there is some trick I'm not aware of.

mmh. as far as i recall there is nothing special about MM (cracked versions anyway) so it *should* work when copied to a floppy....

one thing i could think of, some games which arent properly cracked (many old games which are a full disk, many esi releases) still have a disk id check in them - so you must format the disk first with the proper disk id (the one which you can also see in the directory) and then copy the d64 to it, that could make it work. a good indicator for this is when the d64 works in emulation, but not when copied to a floppy (without properly formatting first).
_________________

http://www.hitmen-console.org http://rr.pokefinder.org
http://magicdisk.untergrund.net http://ftp.pokefinder.org

Wolfeman · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:54 am Post subject:

groepaz wrote:

Quote:

Thanks for the info on the data track, I've seen one or two other disk images with the same issue. Do you have any idea how to correctly copy it to a real floppy? The MMC R can't seem to handle it for some reason, unless there is some trick I'm not aware of.

mmh. as far as i recall there is nothing special about MM (cracked versions anyway) so it *should* work when copied to a floppy....

one thing i could think of, some games which arent properly cracked (many old games which are a full disk, many esi releases) still have a disk id check in them - so you must format the disk first with the proper disk id (the one which you can also see in the directory) and then copy the d64 to it, that could make it work. a good indicator for this is when the d64 works in emulation, but not when copied to a floppy (without properly formatting first).

hmm interesting. what if I used the MMC format routine though, which I did in many instances, although I was not methodical about it. Will the MMC format with the correct ID? hitting return to copy, Y to confirm and then Y to format first? wouldn't that theoretically copy the disk image, id and all, bit for bit?

All my floppies were formatted using the MMC R utils and work on just about every other game but this is an interesting addition regarding the ID.

hmmm indeed, will check...

thank you!

groepaz · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:20 am Post subject:

Quote:

what if I used the MMC format routine though, which I did in many instances, although I was not methodical about it. Will the MMC format with the correct ID? hitting return to copy, Y to confirm and then Y to format first? wouldn't that theoretically copy the disk image, id and all, bit for bit?

not sure about that, my guess would be it doesn't - oliver is an amiga guy, he might have missed this detail.
_________________

http://www.hitmen-console.org http://rr.pokefinder.org
http://magicdisk.untergrund.net http://ftp.pokefinder.org

Wolfeman · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:24 am Post subject:

groepaz wrote:

Quote:

what if I used the MMC format routine though, which I did in many instances, although I was not methodical about it. Will the MMC format with the correct ID? hitting return to copy, Y to confirm and then Y to format first? wouldn't that theoretically copy the disk image, id and all, bit for bit?

not sure about that, my guess would be it doesn't - oliver is an amiga guy, he might have missed this detail.

I'm using the utils to format naming floppy thusly

D64 1: MANIAC MANSION / ID 1

D64 2: MANIAC MANSION / ID 2

update, I just realized I had the concept of "ID" wrong, realize I am not a commodore user, I'm new to this.

when I open the disk images in the emu, there does seem to be some sort of ID

disk one says: 00 2A

disk two says: __ _P [the underscores are just blank spaces]

when I use the MMC R utils to format, I can only enter a 2 digit ID

so which group of numbers is correct or am I on the wrong track again about this?

Update: I think I have figured out the ID. When I view the disk a image in utils it also shows the "2A" after the disk title. I also found out that regardless of how I format initially, that ID carries over when I write the D64 to floppy. Same thing happens if I let the MMC R format just before it copies with its internal copying routine.

The data disk, disk b, shows the letter P as an ID when viewed with the emulator. This does not carry over when it copies nor can I format it that way initially.

Wolfeman · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:18 am Post subject:

Something is definitely not right with the copying of the data disk, disk b, of Maniac Mansion

I can view the directory contents and ID of the floppy using the MMC R utils and disk a looks exactly the way the contents of the disk image reads when mounted by the MMC or the emulator.

Disk B however, does not list the way it does when mounted by the MMC R and the emu shows no contents at all even when I check off strict 1541 emulation.

I think it is possible there is a bug in the MMC R that screws up any data filled disk image you try to copy. I'll have to see if other games with two disks, where one is filled with data reacts the same way.

sigh

Ant · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:12 pm Post subject:

Wolfeman, just wanted to say thanks for doing this extensive testing. My attempts have not been as near as thorough or well documented!

I've been hitting the same problems with writing the image out to floppy so will give your recommendations try.

Keep up the great work. Despite its flaws I still think this is a great piece of kit -- hopefully the developers can use what you've done here to make it even better.

Wolfeman · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:55 pm Post subject:

Thanks Ant, I appreciate that.

I think this device has the potential to be the be-all end-all for anyone who wants to get into the Commodore 64. The price is right and potential is there for it to be 99% efficient in running any game out there, but there is a serious lack of testing and documentation and I'm hoping to change that and that we'll eventually see some bios revisions and some 3rd party support in the form of new plugins as a result.

If you happen to do any further game playing with yours with new games or you try some of my tests, please report them here or send me an e-mail so I can include your results. I think the more glitches and errors in particular that are reproduced, the better.

keep an eye on this MMC R FAQ thread:
http://www.amiga.org/modules/n...mp;forum=4

and please anyone, post similar threads you find on the net here.

In the near future, I'd like to start making a list of all cartridge games working and nonworking, a list of working T64 games using the TNT Browser, as well as user's Favorite Game lists. The Top 50 Downloads are certainly not my favorite or top 50 choices.

cheers

TNT · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 5:39 pm Post subject:

Wolfeman wrote:

a list of working T64 games using the TNT Browser

That's going to be a long list I think. The only T64 I've found which works with VICE but fails with browser has been a demo which overwrote top of stack to autostart itself.

Wolfeman · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 5:46 pm Post subject:

TNT wrote:

Wolfeman wrote:

a list of working T64 games using the TNT Browser

That's going to be a long list I think. The only T64 I've found which works with VICE but fails with browser has been a demo which overwrote top of stack to autostart itself.

hehe, that's great news Smile

. You've tested this with the MMC Replay?

TNT · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:53 pm Post subject:

Wolfeman wrote:

You've tested this with the MMC Replay?

I don't have one, but I'd be very surprised if browser manages to read directory contents but not run programs inside T64 files.

Your earlier post about browser working with MMC and failing with SD card makes me assume that MMCR BIOS leaves SD card in some non-compatible mode. In that case it might help if you remove the card and reinsert it when prompted to do so.

Wolfeman · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:16 pm Post subject:

TNT wrote:

Wolfeman wrote:

You've tested this with the MMC Replay?

I don't have one, but I'd be very surprised if browser manages to read directory contents but not run programs inside T64 files.

Your earlier post about browser working with MMC and failing with SD card makes me assume that MMCR BIOS leaves SD card in some non-compatible mode. In that case it might help if you remove the card and reinsert it when prompted to do so.

"remove the card and reinsert it" does not work and is always what MMC64 users suggest in other threads. It does not work, I promise you that. The TNT Browser does not work on SD cards in the MMC Replay. This is a fact. It has been verified, please ask a long time user here ODO if you don't believe me.

Additionally, I just got back from randomly downloading about one dozen T64 files from ftp.pokefinder.org and I can tell you, the first three games I tried had problems. You simply can not make claims that something works if you have not tried it on the hardware in question as this leads to confusion and misinformation. I am more than happy to run any tests and help the best I can in identifying bugs but I would respectfully ask that my finding not be criticized or doubted simply based on the notion that these things DO work on an MMC64 as this is exactly the reason I am making this thread and doing all this testing. I am happy to try variations of an idea for testing a file if you have them, but if I report that it doesn't work and you can not replicate it because you do not have the hardware, please take my word for it. Maybe we can get a few MMC R users in here and we can all run the same tests together to get a precise conclusion. They would all need to have an MMC Mobile memory card as well as the MMC Replay. They would also have to be NTSC users as it is possible that PAL users may have different results.

I got in to a little argument in the Protovision forum because I said that the ads for the MMC Replay are incorrect because the device really does not faithfully reproduce the functions of the MMC64 and I have proven this a few times over now and I would love it if people started listening to me instead of ignoring my reports.

I am not officially reporting T64 problems yet, I will need to be more methodical about it and get a good batch of games together with download links to test and report on but my guess is, it will not be as cut and dry as you might expect given what I have found already.

PLEASE, do not take my attitude as being confrontational or accusatory, that has already happened with one user here in the Protovision forum and I sincerely regret that. Please just offer me the same respect and belief that you would anyone else and know that I'm trying to do something that all MMC R users can benefit from and hopefully the programmers will use this information to make a better product for all of us to enjoy.

thanks

groepaz · Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 1:23 am Post subject:

Quote:

Additionally, I just got back from randomly downloading about one dozen T64 files from ftp.pokefinder.org and I can tell you, the first three games I tried had problems.

you should really not focus on t64 too much, and use .prg instead - t64 is a terrible format, and there are more broken t64 files than correct ones "out there". emulators and pc tools do a lot of "stunts" to support even broken t64s to make them "work" (and sometimes even that doesnt do the trick) - i can imagine that TNTs browser (or the t64 plugin) don't pull all those tricks, and so only correct t64s work.

in other words, chances are that if you take that t64, copy the prg file out of it, and create a new t64 with a "modern" tool (which doesnt have the old bugs that caused all the broken files) and copy the prg back into it, it will work.
_________________

http://www.hitmen-console.org http://rr.pokefinder.org
http://magicdisk.untergrund.net http://ftp.pokefinder.org

Wolfeman · Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 1:32 am Post subject:

groepaz wrote:

Quote:

Additionally, I just got back from randomly downloading about one dozen T64 files from ftp.pokefinder.org and I can tell you, the first three games I tried had problems.

you should really not focus on t64 too much, and use .prg instead - t64 is a terrible format, and there are more broken t64 files than correct ones "out there". emulators and pc tools do a lot of "stunts" to support even broken t64s to make them "work" (and sometimes even that doesnt do the trick) - i can imagine that TNTs browser (or the t64 plugin) don't pull all those tricks, and so only correct t64s work.

in other words, chances are that if you take that t64, copy the prg file out of it, and create a new t64 with a "modern" tool (which doesnt have the old bugs that caused all the broken files) and copy the prg back into it, it will work.

I agree when it comes to my personal preferences, you're absolutely right, however this testing is really being done to map out the abilities and shortfalls of the MMC R, so I want to eventually cover everything to that end. Additionally, "broken" and /or poorly created game files of any file type need to be identified for the crap that they are.

I really hope some other MMCR users join in.

TNT · Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 7:00 pm Post subject:

groepaz wrote:

you should really not focus on t64 too much, and use .prg instead - t64 is a terrible format, and there are more broken t64 files than correct ones "out there".

There are two reasons why I added T64 support:
1) it preserves original name unlike prg (assuming you copy directly from D64 to T64)
2) it helps avoiding wasted space with large FAT16 clusters (assuming you put several games inside T64)

groepaz · Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 7:56 pm Post subject:

Quote:

There are two reasons why I added T64 support:
1) it preserves original name unlike prg (assuming you copy directly from D64 to T64)
2) it helps avoiding wasted space with large FAT16 clusters (assuming you put several games inside T64)

ofcourse, i know that... it's still a terrible format Smile

_________________

http://www.hitmen-console.org http://rr.pokefinder.org
http://magicdisk.untergrund.net http://ftp.pokefinder.org

Wolfeman · Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:33 pm Post subject:

groepaz wrote:

Quote:

There are two reasons why I added T64 support:
1) it preserves original name unlike prg (assuming you copy directly from D64 to T64)
2) it helps avoiding wasted space with large FAT16 clusters (assuming you put several games inside T64)

ofcourse, i know that... it's still a terrible format Smile

I wouldn't be so quick to blame the container format, but I get your point. The bottom line is, there's a lot of software out there in that format so it's not easy to ignore and I won't be.

groepaz · Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:42 pm Post subject:

Quote:

I wouldn't be so quick to blame the container format, but I get your point. The bottom line is, there's a lot of software out there in that format so it's not easy to ignore and I won't be.

converting all of your t64 into d64 is like... trivial and takes one minute... so yes, you can pretty much ignore it Smile

_________________

http://www.hitmen-console.org http://rr.pokefinder.org
http://magicdisk.untergrund.net http://ftp.pokefinder.org

Wolfeman · Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:54 pm Post subject:

groepaz wrote:

Quote:

I wouldn't be so quick to blame the container format, but I get your point. The bottom line is, there's a lot of software out there in that format so it's not easy to ignore and I won't be.

converting all of your t64 into d64 is like... trivial and takes one minute... so yes, you can pretty much ignore it Smile

yeah if you're a PC user. I am a Mac user Wink

anyway, it's a moot point within the boundaries of this discussion thread, this is about the abilities of the MMC R not the shortcomings of the software it runs [assuming it can run it in the first place].

groepaz · Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:59 pm Post subject:

Quote:

yeah if you're a PC user. I am a Mac user

hu? last time i checked compiling the necessary tools was no different on osx than it was on linux.
_________________

http://www.hitmen-console.org http://rr.pokefinder.org
http://magicdisk.untergrund.net http://ftp.pokefinder.org

Wolfeman · Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:32 pm Post subject:

groepaz wrote:

Quote:

yeah if you're a PC user. I am a Mac user

hu? last time i checked compiling the necessary tools was no different on osx than it was on linux.

dunno. all the tools I've seen were win or dos. I do have a some handy tools for converting tap files in and out of audio wav and I have a D64 reader for OSX called DiskImagry64, but that's it and I'd rather not mess with external tools if I can help it anyway. I just want to plug n' play Smile

Keep in mind I am NEW to the C64 world, like by months. Right now I'm focused on getting the most out of the MMCR and if I can read the T64 container format and run a program in it, then there is no need to convert it imo. Additionally, I doubt I personally will be needing to run any T64 files after I figure out what my favorite games are... speaking of which, Ultimate Wizard, the version put out by EA, is quickly becoming one of my favs. various iterations of BoulderDash and Impossible Mission are easy seconds.

what a fun system! Surprised