MMC Replay vs MMC64

coze · Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 4:46 pm Post subject: MMC Replay vs MMC64

I'm considering selling my mmc64 + retro replay setup to get a MMC Replay. Is there any advantage/disadvantage to MMC replay ?

also, I heard about something called 1541 ultimate. Is this available for sale ? if yes where ?

gklinger · Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 5:40 pm Post subject: Re: MMC Replay vs MMC64

coze wrote:

I'm considering selling my mmc64 + retro replay setup to get a MMC Replay. Is there any advantage/disadvantage to MMC replay

I think the obvious advantage to the MMC Replay is that it offers all the features of the MMC-64 and the Retro Replay in a single cartridge. It's also (more) compatible with the 128 which is a big plus.

Quote:

also, I heard about something called 1541 ultimate. Is this available for sale ? if yes where ?

Yes and no. The first batch has sold out so you'll have to add yourself to the waiting list for the second batch (which may require prepayment, I'm not up to speed on the particulars). Regardless, you can find more information from the 1541 Ultimate website.

I don't know that it is fair to compare the MMC Replay and the 1541 Ultimate. The MMC Replay supports ethernet via the RR-Net and the 1541 Ultimate emulates a 1541 (it's highly compatible) and is capable of loading just about everything.
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tomz · Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 1:18 pm Post subject: MMC Replay vs MMC64

I have to agree with Golan as they both do different things,and I must stress both are brilliant pieces of development for our C64/128

the 1541 Ultimate would be a great addition to your hardwre
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coze · Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject:

I was not comparing mmc64 with 1541 ultimate. I was comparing mmc64 with mmcreplay and wondered if there's any advantage to a mmc64 + retro replay setup. (I remember somebody saying mmcreplay doesn't have mp3@64 port or ethernet port ?)

brokie · Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 1:38 pm Post subject:

it has the port for MP3@64, but the MP3@64 will not attatch directly to the clock port, because of a mechanical issue, that you just have to see to believe..... So close, and yet so friggin far away...

coze · Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject:

which one you mean ? mmc64 or mmcreplay ?

brokie · Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 2:36 pm Post subject:

MMC replay

gklinger · Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 2:50 pm Post subject:

coze wrote:

I was not comparing mmc64 with 1541 ultimate.

Sorry. I didn't mean to imply you were. I said it to make sure that people understood that the two device aren't really analogous even if there are some features that overlap.
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marcom_to · Newbie Joined: 08 Apr 2008 Posts: 4 Location: Turin, Italy

Hy coze,

I own a MMC REPLAY and I'll tell you:

It all depends on what you want to get from it.

At the moment with my card I can

-write d64 back to real disks (with d64writer plugin)
-play single file d64 games
-use some cartridge images (with freeze and reset capability)
-use built-in cyberpunk cartridge (just like action replay)
-play some multi-load games (ide64 fixed) with dfi plugin
-play a bunch of sid tunes

I cannot

- play many multi-load games
- play t64 games
- play prg files directly
- play crt files directly
- play many sid tunes

The problem with MMC cards is that calls to IEC bus cannot be done , so old programs and games must be patched in order to work correctly by replacing IEC routines (This implies a robust knowledge of ML language, disassembling, tampering and assembling). On the 1541 ultimate no hack is needed since that card is a 100% substitution of a 1541 drive, therefore if you think to use a MMC CARD drive as a complete replacement of a 1541 unit, I would spare my money and think about buying a 1541 ultimate.

Hope this helps you,
Marco

nata · Über Groupie Joined: 01 Jun 2005 Posts: 377

Quote:

I cannot

- play many multi-load games
- play t64 games
- play prg files directly
- play crt files directly
- play many sid tunes

Not good.

MMC64 and MMC Replay are too limited compared to the 1541-U.
The only downside of the 1541-U is the long time until shipping.

Klotz · Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 5:13 pm Post subject:

Long time until shipping? Strange.......... I have mine for nearly a month now . It was quite fast. Maybe you should have pre-ordered Shocked

And you shouldn't compare these 2 devices, as they are supposed to do different things! It's like comparing apples and oranges.

gklinger · Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 5:45 pm Post subject:

Klotz wrote:

Long time until shipping? Strange.......... I have mine for nearly a month now . It was quite fast. Maybe you should have pre-ordered Shocked

I was thinking the *exact* same thing.

Quote:

And you shouldn't compare these 2 devices, as they are supposed to do different things! It's like comparing apples and oranges.

Too right. There is a lot of cross-over which I think confuses people but the MMC Replay was never intended to be a disk drive replacement so it's unfair to fault it for that. It would be as unfair as complaining that the ethernet on the 1541U is too slow. Smile

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nata · Über Groupie Joined: 01 Jun 2005 Posts: 377

L

Quote:

ong time until shipping? Strange.......... I have mine for nearly a month now . It was quite fast. Maybe you should have pre-ordered Shocked

How fast is fast? Wink

I don't like the idea of pre-ordering and waiting for weeks or months until a new batch is available.

gklinger · Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 6:18 pm Post subject:

nata wrote:

I don't like the idea of pre-ordering and waiting for weeks or months until a new batch is available.

Then you won't be getting one from the second batch either because the same system is in effect.
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Klotz · Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 6:33 pm Post subject:

So true! And maybe it is good that way. Don't pre-order! If you do, I somehow have that feeling you will still complain about things they were never meant to work with it. Laughing

groepaz · Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:48 am Post subject:

Quote:

So true! And maybe it is good that way. Don't pre-order! If you do, I somehow have that feeling you will still complain about things they were never meant to work with it.

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Zone64 · Groupie in Training Joined: 27 May 2005 Age: 33 Posts: 87

I paid for my 1541 Ultimate in January and got it in April. Couldn't be happier! But this brings up a valid point: MMCReplay is made by a professional retail company while the 1541 Ultimate is only a hobby project.

Jens Schoenfeld has said it would be impossible to make profit from the 1541 Ultimate. The design is simply to expensive. Only the FPGA chip goes for somewhere around $15.

This is something to bear in mind if you think 1541 Ultimate is too expensive. Still, you're only paying for the parts and the production - they are doing this for free for the C64 community. That reason alone was enough for me to send my money.

Plus, Gideon Zweijtzer is simply a genius who needs to be supported. Take a look at his 32 bit 6502 (65GZ032) and you start to realize the possibilities of the 1541 Ultimate. Only FPGA makes it possible (tm) Cool

gklinger · Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:07 pm Post subject:

Zone64 wrote:

Jens Schoenfeld has said it would be impossible to make profit from the 1541 Ultimate. The design is simply to expensive.

That's an opinion and one that's open to debate, plus Jens is somewhat biased. The components of the 1541 Ultimate price out to less than $50 USD (I can provide a price list if you're curious) so that leaves a fair bit of wiggle room. If a production run of a few hundred units was outsourced there would be room, at current pricing levels, for a modest profit.

Anyway, we're in agreement that the 1541U is worth every penny and if Gideon were making any money, and it's obvious he isn't given the amount of time he has invested in development and production, he'd be entitled to it. He has done an amazing thing for the community.
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Wolfeman · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:41 am Post subject: Re: MMC REPLAY

marcom_to wrote:

Hy coze,

I own a MMC REPLAY and I'll tell you:

It all depends on what you want to get from it.

At the moment with my card I can

-write d64 back to real disks (with d64writer plugin)
-play single file d64 games
-use some cartridge images (with freeze and reset capability)
-use built-in cyberpunk cartridge (just like action replay)
-play some multi-load games (ide64 fixed) with dfi plugin
-play a bunch of sid tunes

I cannot

- play many multi-load games
- play t64 games
- play prg files directly
- play crt files directly
- play many sid tunes

The problem with MMC cards is that calls to IEC bus cannot be done , so old programs and games must be patched in order to work correctly by replacing IEC routines (This implies a robust knowledge of ML language, disassembling, tampering and assembling). On the 1541 ultimate no hack is needed since that card is a 100% substitution of a 1541 drive, therefore if you think to use a MMC CARD drive as a complete replacement of a 1541 unit, I would spare my money and think about buying a 1541 ultimate.

Hope this helps you,
Marco

My experience has been similar except that I HAVE been able to run PRG files and some multi load files directly. While I do not have an extensive collection of CRT files I have only found one I could not run. T64 files are a complete washout and that alone has caused me a lot of frustration along with some of the other issues that have been reported.

How can a product advertise that it is the MMC64 and Retro Reply combined and not point out what it CAN'T do that those CAN do? How is that fair advertising? I'm a little more than pissed over that actually.

I have found that I can easily run a lot of things, I just had expected certain things to run that do not. The whole plug ins not being supported thing is particularly frustrating and the ones that do, can't handle FAT32. [grrrrr]

I also have been able to call up a D64 file, hit return and simply write that file to a blank disk. This is great for multi load and multi file disk images that can not be launched by mounting the disk image with the MMC-R. The problem is of course that writing D64 files to floppy is extremely time consuming and defeats the purpose of having the MMC-R in the first place.

All in all It's a great product but the documentation and advertising leave a LOT to be desired and the latter borders on outright lying.

I await the rumored new firmware and for the MMC64 plugins to be fully adapted to the MMC-R and compiled to support FAT32.

MacGyver · Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:27 am Post subject: Re: MMC REPLAY

marcom_to wrote:

I cannot

- play many multi-load games

I hope you did not expect that.

marcom_to wrote:

- play t64 games

T64 Plugin by DrCreep currently does not work on MMC Replay. See here.
Have you tried TNT's browser? Works for me (successfully tested with Teaser/Bonzai and Onslaught Intro #01/Onslaught)
For some MMC Replay user's, TNT's browser does not work for yet unknown reasons.

marcom_to wrote:

- play prg files directly

???

marcom_to wrote:

- play crt files directly

There seems to be in issue with the CRT plugin and MMC Replay as for me I couldn't get any of the CRT image from this list to work which worked with MMC64. Any MMC Replay user (ideally who also has an MMC64) can confirm that?

marcom_to wrote:

- play many sid tunes

Which ones? HVSC paths?
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MacGyver · Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:51 am Post subject: Re: MMC REPLAY

Wolfeman wrote:

While I do not have an extensive collection of CRT files I have only found one I could not run.

Which ones you tried? Which worked, which didn't?

Wolfeman wrote:

I'm a little more than pissed over that actually.

Avoid getting rude. Please be constructive or risk to be ignored in the future.

Wolfeman wrote:

The whole plug ins not being supported thing is particularly frustrating

So which plugins you tried did not work? My GUESS is T64 Plugin and CRT plugin. Any others? Which? Link?

Wolfeman wrote:

and the ones that do, can't handle FAT32. [grrrrr]

As explained before here, the lack of FAT32 support of specific plugins needs to be fixed within the each plugin and therfor is supposed to be addressed to the respective plugin author. If doing so, I suggest a nice and friendly tone.

Wolfeman wrote:

The problem is of course that writing D64 files to floppy is extremely time consuming and defeats the purpose of having the MMC-R in the first place.

Three possibilities:
- live with it
- add an RR-Net and use WarpCopy
- adapt existing software to use an NTSC compatible fast load yourself

Wolfeman wrote:

All in all It's a great product

Cheers.

Wolfeman wrote:

but the documentation and advertising leave a LOT to be desired

I agree that there is room for improvement.

Wolfeman wrote:

and the latter borders on outright lying.

You need to learn the difference between asserting a lack of testing with compatibility issues and calling someone a liar.

Wolfeman wrote:

I await the rumored new firmware and for the MMC64 plugins to be fully adapted to the MMC-R and compiled to support FAT32.

I doubt "awaiting" something from freelance software developpers is a good idea.
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Odo · C64 Enthusiast Joined: 24 Oct 2004 Age: 39 Posts: 710

Quote:

I cannot

- play many multi-load games

I hope you did not expect that.

I expected it because they say you can mount 2 d64 disks. Smile

Why can i mount 2 disk if you only can load one prg?
Still it`s a nice piece of hardware an the TNT browser works here.
Maybe i`m the only one.

tomconte · Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:05 pm Post subject: Re: MMC REPLAY

MacGyver wrote:

marcom_to wrote:

- play many sid tunes

Which ones? HVSC paths?

Maybe it's just me, but Last Ninja 3 seems to hang every time?

/Ouwehand_Reyn/Last_Ninja_3.sid

I have tried on both a C128D and a C64 breadbin. Maybe a problem with my SD card? (FAT32 formatted, should I try FAT instead?)

I just sold my MMC64 to buy a Retro Replay and so far I love it. It just takes time for hobbyist programmers to catch up with new hardware. I think the same thing happened (happens?) with GP32/GP2X for instance ...

I'll happily delve into the code if I find the time but I doubt my C64 abilities would allow me to solve problems quickly Smile

Cheers,
Thomas.

Odo · C64 Enthusiast Joined: 24 Oct 2004 Age: 39 Posts: 710

Quote:

(FAT32 formatted, should I try FAT instead?)

Better FAT Smile

indi · Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:06 pm Post subject:

Odo wrote:

Quote:

(FAT32 formatted, should I try FAT instead?)

Better FAT Smile

the new open source disk system: LARD Smile

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