1541 Alignment disk?

Borat · Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:58 pm Post subject: 1541 Alignment disk?

Anyone know of a good source for an alignment disk etc, for the 1541. I assume these are best bought new rather than a copied d64 image?

Wonder-Boy · Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 8:19 pm Post subject:

Copied is useless. I only know ebay as a source.
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wiskow · Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:16 pm Post subject:

Wonder Boy is right. a copy won't do you a bit of good. You need an original that is written to a specially calibrated disk.

Robert Bernardo pointed out on another forum that oldsoftware.com still has the Free Spirit alignment program for sale. Go to http://www.oldsoftware.com/used64stuff.html and search for "alignment". It's listed as "1541 Drive Alignment", but the actual full title of that program is "1541/1571 Drive Alignment".

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motrucker · Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:43 am Post subject: Re: 1541 Alignment disk?

Borat wrote:

Anyone know of a good source for an alignment disk etc, for the 1541. I assume these are best bought new rather than a copied d64 image?

True, copies will not work. There are a couple of courses for the Free Spirit program, Centible Software also has some (IF you can get them to answer you).
Some of the old Epyx Vorpol Utility Kit have a calibration disk on them. But apparently not all...
I have an extra copy of the Free Spirit program if you can't find one anywhere else. Let me know.

gklinger · Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:10 am Post subject:

How many do you want?
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Borat · Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:04 pm Post subject:

Just bought one on eBay. I thought it was "expensive" in a way but maybe you guys think otherwise.

£13.00 UKP / $26.00 US approx.

Made by Free Spirit.

d0c · Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:14 pm Post subject:

gklinger wrote:

How many do you want?

i want one you send me one?

groepaz · Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:21 pm Post subject:

that "alignment disk" doesnt look like a real alignment disk to me at all. if it is what i think it is, its just about as useful for aligning a drive as any other duplicator written disk. (and that is, not very useful, almost useless infact). a real alignment disk is a special written _analogue_ disk, which you use with an oscilloscope to align the drive. (there is no way you could programatically tell if a 1541 is properly aligned) without such a disk, there is not much you can do about aligning it properly, besides trial and error. and for that, you dont need such "alignment disk" or even a special program at all. and i strongly recommend against trying it, unless the drive in question is seriously out of alignment, and you couldnt make it worse anyway Smile

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Borat · Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:13 am Post subject:

Who is this post directed at? You haven't quoted any message to which you are replying. Confused

d0c · Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:30 am Post subject:

Borat wrote:

Who is this post directed at? You haven't quoted any message to which you are replying. Confused

its directed at YOU that have bought the cat in the bag....

Borat · Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:46 am Post subject:

Well this is the disk used by Ray Carlsen. I quote:

To properly realign a drive, you need special software. I use
"1541/1571 Drive Alignment" by Free Spirit Software. The flipside of the program disk is the alignment disk, and as such, should not be copied (a copy is only as good as the drive that made it).

So that is good enough for me.

http://ftp.giga.or.at/pub/c64/...g-1541.txt

groepaz · Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:26 am Post subject:

Quote:

To properly realign a drive, you need special software. I use
"1541/1571 Drive Alignment" by Free Spirit Software. The flipside of the program disk is the alignment disk, and as such, should not be copied (a copy is only as good as the drive that made it).

this is nonsense though. the "special software" isnt quite as special. all it does is seeking to different places on the disk, and measuring the time it needs to do this. (this is really all you can do). neither does this (significantly) help to (properly) realign a drive, nor would you need to buy such kind of program. freeware software that does just the same has been around for 20 years Smile

and all you need as a reference is some duplicator written disk (ie, any "original" disk would do).
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Borat · Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:30 am Post subject:

Are you speaking from your own experience of the Free Spirit Software or are you generalising here?

If Ray Carlsen "endorses" this software, I would be inclined to accept that. I'm sure you know that Ray is an authority on most Commodore (electronic) hardware.

tomz · Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:59 am Post subject: 1541 alignment disk

So BORAT, are we to understand that now you have solved your disk alignment problem with the use of this 1541/1571 Drive Alignment disk published by Free Spirit Soft.?? If this is the case,perhaps you could have saved yourself 13 quid by moving the drives head along its tracks yourself in the first instance:?:

Twisted Evil

tomz

groepaz · Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:41 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Are you speaking from your own experience of the Free Spirit Software or are you generalising here?

i don't know that particular software. but the fact that someone says you should not copy the "alignment disk" indicates that it infact isnt a real alignment disk at all (because a real alignment disk contains analog alignment patterns, which can not be copied with a digital disk drive at all). moreover, even if it'd be a real alignment disk, there is no way to programmatically tell wether the alignment is good or not, you need an oscilloscope for that.

Quote:

If Ray Carlsen "endorses" this software, I would be inclined to accept that. I'm sure you know that Ray is an authority on most Commodore (electronic) hardware.

that doesnt mean he couldn't be wrong though. it is a common misbelief among many people that such software like the above mentioned is a good way to align diskdrives, that doesnt make it true however.

without a proper analog alignment disk, all you can do to "align" a drive is taking a duplicator written disk, and tweaking the alignment step by step until it is "good enough", which you can either test by loading stuff from said disk, or by using a $20 software that does exactly the same thing Smile

there is no way to know wether it is really properly aligned then though (tolerances are pretty high on 40 track/dd drives) and there is even a fair chance your "alignment" ventures will make it worse than it ever was.

the whole process equals adjusting tape azimuth by loading/rewind/tweak/reload/rewind/tweak until you get a working result. sure you can do that, but you certainly shouldnt pay for doing it =) (note that for tape alignment there ARE proper tools, which can work because there you can programmatically tell wether alignment is ok or not)
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Borat · Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:26 pm Post subject:

I appreciate your thoughts on the matter groepaz. I'll have to wait for my disk to be delivered tomorrow, to see if it helps any.