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Which C64 psu?
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Elsid
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:53 am    Post subject: Which C64 psu? Reply with quote

I have three different power supplies, a standard black supply, a beige unit, and the sloping edge style supply. I've read on here a few times that the black units are more prone to failure and I wondered if the other two unit are better?

The power figures read differently on my black unit as a point of interest but it hasn't caused any glitches with my bread bins yet.
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Oge_user
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They are, more or less, the same in terms of durability.

I don't have any preferences as I don't use them at all, apart from casual gaming sessions or short motherboards tests. Theorically, the older ones are more prone to failure but - on the other hand - they are repairable.

The later model is more powerful (+0,2A on 5VDC) but internal regulator used for the 5VDC is cheap. Dunno about the quality of the transistor used in Breadbins PSUs for regulation.


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Oge
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Fröhn
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A black supply is by far not "standard" for C64. It might be a plus4 supply though.
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Elsid
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fröhn wrote:
A black supply is by far not "standard" for C64. It might be a plus4 supply though.


Maybe it was a regional variation, a friends C64 back in 1984 was supplied with a black psu, same shape as the the c64c power supply with logo.
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Admiral Commodore
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fröhn wrote:
A black supply is by far not "standard" for C64. It might be a plus4 supply though.


Maybe it's a standard PSU that got very hot ...
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best power supplies are the black terahedral ones with a Commodore label and air vents on the top and screws underneath so you can open them.
The Commodore 128 power supplies look very similar except they are beige IIRC.

It's the "door wedge" and "brick" epoxy ones that die easily. Avoid them if you can.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The best ones are the 1764 power supplies, essentially just C128 PSU's with C64 connector. They came with the 1764 REU.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

in australia the very early breadbins had the triangle shaped power supplies in australia, then the later breadbins had the black vented ones, then with the 64c we were introduced to the square beige(light) ones.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always thought the power supply was wedged shaped so I could warm my feet on it!
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Fröhn
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The wedge shaped ones are the ones which should be avoided Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hehe, some confusion here Wink
Most US C64 breadboxes came with black psu! Euro C64 breadboxes came with beige horseshoe psu.
C64-C came with white rectangle psu.

Theoretically, the white C64-C psu is littel bit stronger than the others, and the US black psu has a bad reputation.
From my experience, however, the horseshoe is not that bad.

Best, however, is a (plug-modified) C128 psu like Fröhn suggested, or a power psu.
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ilesj
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What exactly is "horseshoe psu"?
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eslapion
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fröhn wrote:
The best ones are the 1764 power supplies, essentially just C128 PSU's with C64 connector. They came with the 1764 REU.

C128 PSUs are rated for 4.3A while 1764 PSUs are rated for 2.5A on the 5Vdc so they aren't the same.

C128 PSUs are also considerably heavier as they use a single huge transformer for both the 9Vac and 5Vdc.

From what I saw inside, 1764 PSUs are more similar to A500/A600 PSUs with the 5V being produced with a fully switching technology converter.

This makes them less powerful but much safer, durable and stable than a C128 PSU.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmm, I will have to check this.
The one I use myself actually isa C128 psu with different connector, and I think also some 1764 were sold together with such psu over here.
But I also have one which reads 1764 psu on the back. I always thought they were the same ? Will have a look when I find some time.
Thanks for this info!
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Fröhn
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eslapion wrote:
Fröhn wrote:
The best ones are the 1764 power supplies, essentially just C128 PSU's with C64 connector. They came with the 1764 REU.

C128 PSUs are rated for 4.3A while 1764 PSUs are rated for 2.5A on the 5Vdc so they aren't the same.

C128 PSUs are also considerably heavier as they use a single huge transformer for both the 9Vac and 5Vdc.

Below my table I have both of them right next to each other and they both have exactly the same rating: 2.5A on the 5VDC and 1A on the 9VAC.

The only difference is that one says "POWER SUPPLY C128 P/NO. 310416-03" and the other one says "POWER SUPPLY C 64/1764 P/NO. 310416-09".
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groepaz
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

and they are actually *exactly* the same, also internally. the sticker and the plug are the only difference.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

groepaz wrote:
and they are actually *exactly* the same, also internally. the sticker and the plug are the only difference.

WTF!!!

All my C128 PSUs weighs in excess of 2kg, the 1764 PSU weighed less than 1.3kg.

The 9Vac transformer in the 1764 was a flimsy little 1A transformer while the C128's PSU uses a single huge block.

A few years ago you also said that all C128 PSUs rated for 4.3A should be trashed. Well guess what... I have yet to find a SINGLE C128 PSU sold in north america rated for something OTHER than 4.3A.

They ARE completely different internally.

The north american C128 PSU is part no. 310416-06 and it has a massive transformer rated for 70VA.

Added edit:


Duh! Even the PCB isn't oriented the same way!
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like there is more difference in Euro and US psus except the different voltage Wink
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I opened both power supplies (C128 and 1764), the internals are exactly the same.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yep. so there seems to be another rule of thumb: stay away from north american psus =)
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone sell the c64 protector thingy that Ray Carlsen has plans for?

Preferably on a board, with one male & one female DIN, so it can go between the computer and power supply? The thing that switches a relay when the DC goes over 5V, hopefully sooner than the C64 chips fry.... It would be worth the trouble if it made it safe to use the most common power supplies.

I was thinking it might be neat to try to make one, but it's still cheaper and easier just to use 2 wall warts and one connector.
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groepaz
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The thing that switches a relay when the DC goes over 5V

wtf a relay? what happened to the good old crowbar circuit? Sad
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ceratophyllum wrote:
Does anyone sell the c64 protector thingy that Ray Carlsen has plans for?


I'm working on one for a guy, as I built one for myself, but I don't think anyone is selling them.

A modern replacement in a tube with a male and female plug to just elongate the original plug would be handy. Maybe a two color led there as well... I was searching for some and wrote about it in another thread but the available chips seemed to break power pretty high compared to what we'd like for a C64. I'm thinking the highest voltage should be 5.5V on the 5V line.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

wtf a relay? what happened to the good old crowbar circuit?


No special reason, just an old document. This is the thing I was looking at.

http://personalpages.tds.net/~.../saver.txt

Edit:Just read Wiki on crowbar. Does the C64 brick even have a fuse buried in all the epoxy?
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groepaz
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

some do... but you can always add one right before the crowbar Smile
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