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Grandmaster of C64


Joined: 03 Oct 2004 Age: 36 Posts: 2041 Location: Bury, Lancs, UK Fave Game / Music - Thrust & Ocean Loader
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Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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Bought myself the Peugeot 206cc on Saturday. Silver with red & black leather interior. Pick it up next Sat.
Was 50/50 with this or an MR2 - but the electric roof swung it. Just know if I had a soft top someone would slash it and a detatchable hard top is a bit of a pain in the arse
Just hope I get the chance to drive with the roof down - it is England after all! _________________ |
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Joined: 27 Dec 2005 Posts: 211
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Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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bike cabrio 2 wheeler |
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C64 Enthusiast


Joined: 02 Feb 2007 Age: 41 Posts: 727 Location: Buffalo, New York USA
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Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:59 am Post subject: |
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My candy apple dodge viper, only comes out in the summer...
...Just kidding thats what I wish I was driving. I drive a gold Ford Focus ZTS. |
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Newbie
Joined: 26 Aug 2006 Posts: 1
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| DigitalQuirk wrote: | | gklinger wrote: | | How does trim enhance performance? |
I'm glad you asked. The GT trim level of my car includes performance oriented upgrades over the base model which includes a ram air intake, four wheel disc brakes, wider and lower profile tires, a performance axle with a 3.29 final drive ratio, a 3.4L V6 engine rated at 175 HP and 205 lb. ft. of torque, tuned exhaust which flows better, much thicker sway bars, and a stiffer suspension. Note that most people confuse "Trim level" with actual "Trim." The actual meaning is, "Vehicle designation assigned by vehicle manufacturers that represent specific equipment packages." Source: http://autorepair.about.com/li...ef-666.htm
What this all translates to is a 0-60 run in around 7.7 seconds, a road handling index of .82g, and braking distance from 60-0 in 129 feet. While not "High Performance Sports Car" territory, it is significantly more performance-oriented than the base model (0-60 in 10 seconds, 60-0 in 148 feet) or even the base model with the optional V6 (0-60 in 8.4 seconds, 60-0 in 155 feet). In other words, a reasonably priced economy sedan with a little bit of fun (and style) thrown in.
Compare that to, say, a 2000 BMW 328i, which actually has a slightly worse road handling index of .79g and similar braking power (according to edmunds.com); it is quicker with a stick shift by a mere 0.6 seconds, but definitely not with an automatic (which is what I prefer). For the price, the options I want, and cost of operation, I'll take the Grand Am GT, please.  |
Man,now you're trying to convince us your car is better than a comparable BMW.In the US in every comparo by reputable car mags road and track,car and driver etc. the Pontiac grand am placed last or at the bottom and that's amongst Toyota Camry,Honda Accord etc. a lower category than the sports sedan.
The 3 series is often referred to as the benchmark,the handling hero etc by most experts in its class. Not to mention how many awards received over the years like car of the year 10 year in a row from one mag.
These good reviews coming in not just from the US but Europe and else where.
Handling aside the cheap plastic interior of the grand am looks like it was made by Mattel .
I had some POS cars too in my early twenties but I didn't go out of my way to BS people or myself into believing that they were better than BMW's.
People who race cars will tell you BMW's,Mazda(Miata,RX8),Lotus exige etc. are great cars and the Grand Am will be at the bottom of their list.
And you prefer a slushbox ...nuff said |
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Team Member & Donator


Joined: 07 Jan 2004 Age: 31 Posts: 1504 Location: Iceland
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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Dunno how the Pontiac rates but the BMW's reliability ratings are shite. They're fun to drive tho
Autoboxes are a real performance killers and are almost never used when it comes to racing/rally as they don't give you full RPM control and engine braking is nowhere near as efficient as on a manual box. On a normal, day to day, A to B car that's only used for work and shopping an autobox can be ok, albeit a bit boring
However, very few people realize that autoboxes (with extra cooling, mind you  ) are actually preferable in heavier off road conditions where the car has to crawl really slow or climb over tall rocks and such, as you will fry your clutch in such conditions. They're also used in almost every formula offroad car for speedier downshifts.
In snow and slippery conditions a manual box is preferable due to better engine braking and due to the fact that the clutch can actually save your sorry ass if the car starts slipping or fishtailing. Proper clutch control will also prevent you from getting stuck in snow, which is on contrary to the popular belief that flooring the car will get it up that snowy hill
So autoboxes and manual boxes are both good, although it really depends on your driving style and needs. I prefer manual btw  _________________ |
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Über Groupie


Joined: 11 Jan 2007 Posts: 391 Location: Oshawa, Ontario
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Quincy wrote: | | Man,now you're trying to convince us your car is better than a comparable BMW. |
For my driving needs, yes.
| Quincy wrote: | | The 3 series is often referred to as the benchmark,the handling hero etc by most experts in its class. |
Well then, you explain to me why the 318i had a slightly worse road handling index than my Grand Am GT, according to edmunds.com.
| Quincy wrote: | People who race cars will tell you BMW's,Mazda(Miata,RX8),Lotus exige etc. are great cars and the Grand Am will be at the bottom of their list.
And you prefer a slushbox ...nuff said |
Uh...yeah, that's 'cause I did't buy my car to race it; I bought it to drive back and forth to work in everyday traffic, where I'm not wearing out my left leg and clutch plate clutching in and out all the way to and from work. I also wanted a good highway cruiser with good handling characteristics for those family trips back in the twisty roads of Northern Ontario. If I wanted a race car, there are much better choices out there than a 318i for less money than a 318i.  _________________
Our final experience, like our first, is conjectural. We move between two darknesses. |
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Newbie
Joined: 26 Aug 2006 Posts: 1
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| DigitalQuirk wrote: | | Quincy wrote: | | Man,now you're trying to convince us your car is better than a comparable BMW. |
For my driving needs, yes.
| Quincy wrote: | | The 3 series is often referred to as the benchmark,the handling hero etc by most experts in its class. |
Well then, you explain to me why the 318i had a slightly worse road handling index than my Grand Am GT, according to edmunds.com.
| Quincy wrote: | People who race cars will tell you BMW's,Mazda(Miata,RX8),Lotus exige etc. are great cars and the Grand Am will be at the bottom of their list.
And you prefer a slushbox ...nuff said |
Uh...yeah, that's 'cause I did't buy my car to race it; I bought it to drive back and forth to work in everyday traffic, where I'm not wearing out my left leg and clutch plate clutching in and out all the way to and from work. I also wanted a good highway cruiser with good handling characteristics for those family trips back in the twisty roads of Northern Ontario. If I wanted a race car, there are much better choices out there than a 318i for less money than a 318i.  |
FYI,A mere .6 sec faster in 0-60mph is actually a huge difference.I use Edmunds.com to get dealer invoice prices and such....If you want somewhat good reviews use Car magazine,Top gear,road and track etc .
The Grand Am isn't sporty at all, it just looks sporty...GM fooled ya,please quit comparing it to the 3series.There's nothing wrong with your car,it's not a 3 series killer tho.Go for the Toyota Camry or Honda Accord and it still loses. |
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Newbie
Joined: 22 Jan 2005 Posts: 47 Location: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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2007 Honda Accord EX-L with 2.4L I4 and 5-speed manual.
If you drive a stick every day, driving it in traffic is not that bad, and it's a much better driving experience. I really despise driving an automatic now.
I spent the $1,800 I saved by not buying the automatic by upgrading to the EX-L trim with leather seats, power everything, and navigation system. I use the navigation system a lot - it's a really great feature. It adds far more value to me than an automatic transmission would. _________________ Commodore 128 640K (1750 REU) - flat
Commodore 64 breadbox (1982 5-pin video)
Commodore 64 breadbox x2 (8-pin video)
Commodore VIC-20 40K RAM
Commodore VIC-20 37K RAM
Amiga 500 9 MB RAM 40 MHz 68EC030 |
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Newbie
Joined: 26 Aug 2006 Posts: 1
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| PhotoJim wrote: | 2007 Honda Accord EX-L with 2.4L I4 and 5-speed manual.
If you drive a stick every day, driving it in traffic is not that bad, and it's a much better driving experience. I really despise driving an automatic now.
I spent the $1,800 I saved by not buying the automatic by upgrading to the EX-L trim with leather seats, power everything, and navigation system. I use the navigation system a lot - it's a really great feature. It adds far more value to me than an automatic transmission would. |
Agreed plus better MPG. |
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Über Groupie


Joined: 11 Jan 2007 Posts: 391 Location: Oshawa, Ontario
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Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 12:30 am Post subject: |
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| Quincy wrote: | | FYI,A mere .6 sec faster in 0-60mph is actually a huge difference. |
I suppose, if you're into racing, either at the track or with illegal street racing. That said, if I were into racing, there are cars that cost less than the 3 series which are another .6 seconds or faster than it; if racing is your thing. Me, I'll take the convenience of my modern automatic transmission.
| Quincy wrote: | | The Grand Am isn't sporty at all, it just looks sporty...GM fooled ya,please quit comparing it to the 3series.There's nothing wrong with your car,it's not a 3 series killer tho.Go for the Toyota Camry or Honda Accord and it still loses. |
Yep, they fooled everyone; that's why it has a better roadhandling index than the 328i...  _________________
Our final experience, like our first, is conjectural. We move between two darknesses. |
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Newbie
Joined: 26 Aug 2006 Posts: 1
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Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 2:24 am Post subject: |
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| DigitalQuirk wrote: | | Quincy wrote: | | FYI,A mere .6 sec faster in 0-60mph is actually a huge difference. |
I suppose, if you're into racing, either at the track or with illegal street racing. That said, if I were into racing, there are cars that cost less than the 3 series which are another .6 seconds or faster than it; if racing is your thing. Me, I'll take the convenience of my modern automatic transmission.
| Quincy wrote: | | The Grand Am isn't sporty at all, it just looks sporty...GM fooled ya,please quit comparing it to the 3series.There's nothing wrong with your car,it's not a 3 series killer tho.Go for the Toyota Camry or Honda Accord and it still loses. |
Yep, they fooled everyone; that's why it has a better roadhandling index than the 328i...  |
Just trying to keep you honnest,although not a fan of Edmunds.com...
The Bimmer has an editor rating of 7.9 and consumer rating of 8.9 while the grand am has no editor rating and a consumer rating(8.2).Emunds.com pry didn't even test the grand am.
Here are reviews of both cars by Edmunds.com
For the BMW 3 series:
What Edmunds.com says
If you've got the bucks, this is unequivocally the best car in the entry-luxury category.
Pros
Luxurious, powerful, exceptional road manners, available all-wheel drive for sedan and wagon.
Cons
Pricey for their market segment, limited rear-seat space and cargo capacity.
http://www.edmunds.com/used/20...itors.html
Handling score of 10 out of 10.
For the grand am:
What Edmunds.com says
A viable import alternative, but don't expect Camry- or Accord-like resale values or build quality.
Pros
Lots of standard features, available five-speed manual transmission, crisp handling.
Cons
Price creep has followed sales growth, true sport sedans need a five-speed with a V6, cheap interior pieces.
What's New for 2002
Base model SEs get a new 2.2-liter four-cylinder engine, while GTs get newly styled 16-inch wheels. All models receive a console upgrade and two new exterior colors.
The Editor didn't even bother to rate the grand am and show dates when they test drove the car.
Handling score of the grand am: None.
I don't think much of Edmunds,com reviews just wanted to accommodate you.
Where did you get the road handling numbers of both cars on edmunds.com? |
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Paperboy


Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Posts: 51 Location: Finland
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Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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I own a Chrysler 300C and it's my first automatic and I just love it.
No more manual transmission for me!  _________________ ---- Harley-Davidson ----> |
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Über Groupie


Joined: 11 Jan 2007 Posts: 391 Location: Oshawa, Ontario
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Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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Not to good at this internet thing yet, eh, Quincy?
Here, I'll hand-hold you by providing the links:
http://www.edmunds.com/used/20...specs.html
http://www.edmunds.com/used/20...specs.html
Note that the 2000 model is representative of all Grand Am GT's built after '99.
Let's compare the two, shall we?
323i has a 2.5L V6 which produces 170 horsepower, and 181 lb. ft. of torque. It has an EPA rating of 20MPG city, 29MPG highway with the stick shift transmission.
Grand Am GT has a 3.4L V6 which produces 175 horsepower and 205 lb. ft. of torque. It has an EPA rating of 20MPG city, and 32MPG highway with the automatic transmission. That's with regular octane gas.
Note that, even though the Grand Am GT has a larger displacement engine, which produces more horsepower and torque, and is connected to a supposedly less efficient transmission, and weighs 15 lbs. more than the 323i, it yields better overall fuel economy. I wonder, whatever happened to that so-called superior German engineering?
Not only is the road handling index better, the Grand Am GT also has a slightly shorter stopping distance. This in spite of the fact that it is a slightly heavier car.
Of course, we're talking 2002 here. Today, you could buy a BMW 328i coupe for over $35,000; or you could get a G6 GXP for $10,000 less. Hmm, a German engineered car with a 3.0L engine that produces 230HP and 200 lb. ft. of torque, or an American built car with a 3.6L engine that produces 252 HP and 251 lb. ft. of torque? You get bonus points if you knew that the G6 GXP also gets better fuel mileage; 20/28 vs. the 328i's pitiful 18/27.
I personally feel that BMW's are overrated, but clearly, you're buying what they're selling. Buy on, Quincy!  _________________ Our final experience, like our first, is conjectural. We move between two darknesses. |
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Master of C64


Joined: 13 Jul 2002 Age: 39 Posts: 1023 Location: 3-0 down and cruising
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Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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bought myself a vw passat turbo diesel estate, fuel economy is great, plenty of room for the kids etc.. _________________ chelsea rent boys, where were you in istanbul?? |
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C64 Enthusiast


Joined: 23 Oct 2007 Age: 33 Posts: 648 Location: Hälsingland/Sweden
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Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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the one and only, the mighty VOLVO 744 -1986!  _________________ http://www.slayradio.org/webplayer.php
"Another visitor. Stay awhile, stay forever!"
"In the beginning was the Screen, and the Screen was blank. Commodore moved upon the face of the Screen saying 'let there be sprites'." |
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Team Member & Donator


Joined: 07 Jan 2004 Age: 31 Posts: 1504 Location: Iceland
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Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 1:05 am Post subject: |
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| Luzur wrote: | the one and only, the mighty VOLVO 744 -1986!  |
Great cars  _________________
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Newbie
Joined: 05 May 2008 Posts: 25 Location: Germany / Baden
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Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 10:02 am Post subject: |
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'85 Mercedes 190 (W201) Diesel  Very comfortable and economic... |
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Grandmaster of C64


Joined: 23 Sep 2005 Posts: 2301 Location: Earth (Ohio)
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Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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1970 dodge dart. I hate it. i want to demo derby that gas guzzlin piece of crap.
I like all your japanese cars Wiskow. that first van is great. its like an egg on wheeeels. _________________ Who the hell is General Failure, and why is he reading my disk?. |
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Lemon64 Donator!

Joined: 24 Nov 2007 Age: 34 Posts: 632 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 2:14 am Post subject: |
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I'll trade my '95 Saab for your Dart. _________________ |
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Grandmaster of C64


Joined: 23 Sep 2005 Posts: 2301 Location: Earth (Ohio)
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Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| tone007 wrote: | | I'll trade my '95 Saab for your Dart. |
thatd be like trading a half eaten candy bar for a kick in the balls... _________________
Who the hell is General Failure, and why is he reading my disk?. |
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Lemon64 Donator!

Joined: 24 Nov 2007 Age: 34 Posts: 632 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 2:20 am Post subject: |
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Ha, which one's the half-eaten candy bar? _________________ |
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Master of C64


Joined: 04 Nov 2006 Age: 38 Posts: 1324 Location: San Diego, California, USA
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Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 2:24 am Post subject: |
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| Arkhan wrote: | | tone007 wrote: | | I'll trade my '95 Saab for your Dart. |
thatd be like trading a half eaten candy bar for a kick in the balls... |
Is the Dart the half-eaten candy bar, or is it the kick in the balls?
-Andrew _________________
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Grandmaster of C64


Joined: 23 Sep 2005 Posts: 2301 Location: Earth (Ohio)
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Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 4:15 am Post subject: |
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well for me, driving that things a kick in the balls.
bastard died in the middle of intersection and Ialmost got T-boned.
its always something DUMB that goes wrong. not anything major
how a battery cable comes loose is beyond me
or how a plastic bag gets stuck to the radiator and blows the thingy on top is beyond me also. _________________ Who the hell is General Failure, and why is he reading my disk?. |
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Newbie
Joined: 05 May 2008 Posts: 25 Location: Germany / Baden
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Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 6:28 am Post subject: |
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Haha ..
My mercedes refused to work just once, immediately after refuel. Well, the coals in the generator were rubbed off and the battery was finally empty, that damn control light was extemely dark, so I didn't notice it earlier
Right now I'm thinking about buying a '87 190D with nearly no rust to replace mine -- it became a bit TOO rusty  |
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Lemon64 Donator!

Joined: 24 Nov 2007 Age: 34 Posts: 632 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Arkhan wrote: | bastard died in the middle of intersection and Ialmost got T-boned.
its always something DUMB that goes wrong. not anything major
how a battery cable comes loose is beyond me
or how a plastic bag gets stuck to the radiator and blows the thingy on top is beyond me also. |
Well, even after hearing a little bit of the history of the car, my offer still stands. I need car #50. ha _________________
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