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Supercard - Share the Info (And I will compile it)
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r.cade
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LordCrass wrote:
I've always followed the Maverick convention for v-max versioning, which is relating to the on-disk format of sectors. v2 being the first completely custom sector format that is found on Rocket Ranger, Three Stooges, side 1 of Take Down Wrestling, etc.

While these ones had the loader stored on track 20 in the no-sync format, it didn't make sense to try relocating it since you still had to deal with all the other custom format tracks, which required extra hardware. And if you had the hardware to deal with those tracks, you could also copy track 20.

There are about a dozen of these V2 where you cannot directly copy track 20 due to the way it's written. Give it a try- even the SuperCard/SC+ has the "V-MAX Fixer" in the menu for these titles, so it cannot do it either.

Paperboy
Into the Eagles Nest
Top Fuel Eliminator (? - don't have image of this one)
Bop 'n' Rumble
Deja Vu
Infiltrator II
Gradius
Gauntlet (some versions, not most)
Defender of the Crown (majority have this tough track 20, some not)
Ice Hockey (? - don't have image of this one)
Xevious
Sidearms
Circus Charlie
Slot Car Racer
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JimDrew
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You definitely want to use my GCR Editor. It was released with SuperCard. You can read and write tracks with this program. This is what *I* used to determine exactly how to copy a disk. You can enter data patterns to queue the start of a track read. A really good way to practice is by using something that is Vorpal, like Winter Games. Those "long tracks" use a custom data format. You are going to see a big section of all 55's. THAT is the track gap. Do a few reads and see where those end up in the display. Then use 55,55,55,55 as the start header and you will then see the data now starts with the track gap, the entire track, and then part of the track gap again. If you set the end of the track marker to be the somewhere in the middle of the SECOND copy of the track gap and write the track back out, you have just copied the track successfully. Why? Because you are writing the track data starting with the gap, then the valid track data, and ending with part of the gap. This overwrites the beginning of the track gap (ideally putting the write splice in the middle of the gap). Make sure your drive speed is 297.5 to 298.1 when doing this.
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JimDrew
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The V-MAX! copier that Victor did actually cracked the program so you could copy with just about any normal nibbler.

We could copy all of these with SuperCard+, but like I mentioned before, the more bells and whistles available, the more sought after your disk copier was.
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LordCrass
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

r.cade wrote:
There are about a dozen of these V2 where you cannot directly copy track 20 due to the way it's written.

I classified all of those as v1 since it's standard CBM GCR/sector format for the data. The only thing different about the data tracks are use of non-standard density on the higher tracks, and therefore sometimes the use of an extra sector or two on the track, so you need a density-detect nibbler for it.

The Ice Hockey game is "Superstar Ice Hockey" by Mindscape. It doesn't have a track 20 loader, but it does have the same secondary protections as DotC.

I think SC+ can indeed copy the loader on track 20 on these. You might need to specify a custom header to search for to get the track 20 data framed properly, but that should be the extent of it. Some of these (eg. Deja Vu, Paperboy, Infiltrator II) have a sync length check though that I still don't think SC+ can duplicate reliably enough. The parameter patches that out too.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have copies of Defender of the Crown that were duplicated with SC+ on my 1541 drive, so I know it works - even when you go raid the castle.

The only thing that I did not make was a custom copier for was the RapidLock stuff. The changing densities could be detected with SC+, but it was easier to just have a stand alone copier - and it was just one more thing to add to the disk. We ended up with 2 disks (front and back) when SC+ v6 was released.
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JimDrew
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW, I call my GCR editor "GCR Doctor". You will find it in the single drive copier menu.

R)ead a track and then select E)dit. Now press the ? key to get help for a list of commands. There is a command in there (F4 I think) that will actually find the track gap for you using the same routine the GCR nibbler uses. Once you find the gap, you move the cursor to the start of either the gap itself or the valid data immediately after the gap and then re-read the track from that point. This buffers the track correctly so you can then mark the end of the track (somewhere in the gap) and then write it back.
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LordCrass
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No idea how I missed this one before.. I like the way the GCR Doctor highlights the sync marks and sector headers in a different colour. After looking through screens and screens of GCR, your eyes start to go a little squirrely, and that helps a lot.

One feature it's missing though is the ability to insert a byte. This comes in handy if you're modifying sync lengths. Ability to go back to the start of the track buffer with CLR key would be nice too.
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JimDrew
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a key to reset the buffer position to the start, just like there is a key to jump to $1B00, which the approximate track length for density level 3. I don't remember the key though. My version allows you to insert or delete single bytes, but I am not sure if that was SC+ v6 or not. I had a MFM editor much like the GCR doctor. Its funny that I an remember these things but I recall very little about the Amiga version, which came much later.
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sncboom2k
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone know how well the Disk Duplikator by Datel worked for copying heavier protected disks? 256K Ram and onboard OS. Parallel cable basically - would imagine it did no better than burst nibbler?
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LordCrass
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Duplikator was aimed more at user groups who wanted to make dozens of copies of unprotected disks. Read the disk into the RAM cache, then start firing off copies without having to insert the source again.

I'd be surprised if it could handle any protection at all. At best, standard software nibbler abilities. If it's only got 256KB of RAM, it can't handle 8KB of track cache for even 35 tracks.
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JimDrew
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that was a simple block copier, not a nibbler, so 256K would be plenty.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I agree - see one for sell on ebay and says "We'll throw in burst nibbler" or something along those lines. So - nothing more than a memory card and basic parallel copier.
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JimDrew
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:30 am    Post subject: SuperCard Pro Reply with quote

Well, I finished the schematic and board layout for the SuperCard Pro. I will have prototype boards on Wednesday. The board ended up 2.75"x2.0" in size. There is a USB interface, a serial port, 2 LEDs for the USB read and write status, 3 LEDs for read, write, and index pulse for disk data, 2 push button inputs, an external power connector, and a 34 pin drive connector. So, it ended up having some extra stuff. The serial port can drive a serial LCD to act as a stand alone unit. The USB works in a hub or regular port and can be programmed for 90ma to 500ma, so you can drive most 3.5" drives without external power. The external power connector is for a stand alone setup or drive power.

I am not sure if this project will be commercial, open source, or something in between. My goal is simplicity for the user.
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LordCrass
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice work, Jim. Does this still interface with a 1541 as well, and if so, how?

Looking at a history of hardware projects, I'd say that some sort of open source license for the software/firmware is the best option. Many projects tend to get abandoned before they reach their full potential because the creator loses interest. Not saying this will happen to you, but this gives the device a much greater longevity if anyone can pick it up years down the road and improve it without having to reverse engineer the whole thing.
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JimDrew
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is not for a 1541. This is a device that requires a PC floppy drive (3.5" or 5.25"). It can dump raw (flux transitions) data, decoded GCR/FM/MFM data, or decoded sector data. So, it can emulate any type of disk drive. Of course, that data can also be written back to a disk.

This isn't rocket science, so there is not much to reverse engineer. There is a CPU, static RAM, a USB interface chip, and some misc. parts. The CPU DMA's the timer value to the data port and then increments the address without tieing up any processor time. With a 40 MIPs CPU there is plenty of power to decode the data stream in real time, including the sector data format if you want. My first focus is CBM format.

I will definitely make the PC side open source. It is a simple VB6 program. So someone could convert it to .net or C/C++/C# version. I am going to make a PC version of my GCR and MFM editors I did for the C64 and Amiga.


Last edited by JimDrew on Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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cdawe
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:43 am    Post subject: Wooohoooo! Reply with quote

Yessssssssssssssssssss!

Prototype = Happy Curt!

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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JimDrew
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I started a new thread for the SuperCard Pro.
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LordCrass
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim, was there ever a speed control mechanism for the 1571 or the direct drive 1541-II's? The supercard docs mention one, but I've never seen it.

I still want to put a supercard+ into my 1571, but if I can't control the speed of the drive, the usefulness of the card is greatly reduced.
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JimDrew
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, there was a speed control for the 1571 and 1541-II. It was a pot and two resistors, although looking at this now I am not sure why the resistors were actually used, perhaps for current reduction or something.

edit: I remember now that the minimum resistance for the motor controller had to be just under 1 megaohm, while the maximum resistance was close to 2 megaohm. So, the resistors serve to provide the minimum value.

I opened my 1571 disk drive today and took some pictures. The same setup applies to the 1541-II.

This drive didn't have the digital track display and other goodies like my 1541's do, but it does have the density display and stepper motor phase display. This was the original 1571 that I used for prototyping the final 1571/1541-II board. Notice that this board is the old "brush style" with the ribbon adapter on the bottom. If it works like this, it will work with the much shorter cable and direct connect to the board.

I will see if I can carefully disassemble the drive mechanics to get pics of the solder location for the speed control pot. Edit: pictures of drive solder points added!

















Here is the connection points to the drive board:










BLACK WIRE -------/\/\/\/\/---------- OUTER LEAD OF 1M ohm POT


WHITE WIRE -------/\/\/\/\/---------- CENTER LEAD OF 1M ohm POT


The resistors (--/\/\/\/\/--) above are 470K. The potentiometer is a 1 mega ohm.


Last edited by JimDrew on Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:58 pm; edited 2 times in total
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sncboom2k
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And that's the kind of cool stuff I'm looking for Jim. If you can find those solder points for the speed control on the 1571 - we'd all greatly appreciate it. I have the speed control knob for my 1541, but would love to be able to control the speed of my 1541 II and 1571.

Not to mention the track / density display. I found those schematics in a GEOWRITE format but have yet to install GEOS to get to the actual data. If you can share that info - it'd be great.

Some copy progress. Got a couple new used loose disks in pretty bad shape from evilbay. Airborne Ranger - would barely load, much less copy until I cleaned it with alcohol. Now it works perfectly. Have completed 80% of the missions in the last week with the backups I made. Was 1st successful using my supercard. Then with some trial and error, I got my nibtools to make a successful copy as well.

Still battling with Predator, Aliens, and Rambo III. Rambo III I was able to make a copy with Maverick using my supercard+ as the ramboard. I've not been successful at making a working copy with the supercard alone. Just not skilled enough to figure out the header params etc that are needed.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For cleaning the disks - in case anyone is wondering - this worked really well for me. I loaded up the supercard speed check program. Inserted my original with all the crud on it and started the speed check. Obviosuly my drive cover was off. I then ran a q-tip soaked in rubbing alcohol accross the disk for several minutes (rotating the q-tip every so many seconds and replacing it as needed since it was turning a nasty shade of brown.) Then when I had completed the entire surface of the disk, I used clean q-tips to dry up the remaining alcohol while the disk was spinning. Of course apply minimal pressure or you'll stop the drive motor completely. Once this is done - let the disk stand for an hour or so to evaporate any alcohol left in the jacket. Worked perfect - and have done this to several disks now. All that were not working - are now working.

The only disk I ruined was my 1st attempt at cleaning by hand without using the spinning drive method. Destroyed my 1st Airborne ranger disk (which appeared to be covered with that fungus.) Dumpster candy.

Of course you'll want to ensure the side of the floppy that gets read (for a single sided game) is facing up in the drive. For dual sided disks - perform those steps for both sides.

And always clean your drive head after performing this task.
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JimDrew
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, just a word of warning... the speed check program (mine at least) writes to the disk! It formats a track with all 55's and a sync mark. After that, the time between the sync mark is used to fetch the timer value and reset it. That time is converted to a disk speed. If you have a write protect on the disk, then you will be fine I think... but I would find another way to spin up the drive - just in case!

I plan on ripping apart a few drives this weekend, so I will take some pics of my 1571's speed controller wiring.
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sncboom2k
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info Jim - they are in fact write protected and have been ok thus far. I'll search for another method of spinning the disk using the drive.
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JimDrew
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I added the pictures of the drive connection point for the resistors and pot.
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sncboom2k
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks - that's very helpful.

What are the odds you could put together some of the LED kits for track and density readout by the vegas show? I bet those would sell well at Commvex.
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