Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 5:46 am Post subject: Just how stupid are MS Windows designers?
So I bought a new system. Well, actually it's a refurbished system; A Core 2 Duo, 2.4Ghz with XP Pro. I know it's not state of the art, but I didn't want to pay a fortune and I didn't really want Win7, which is what all the i3/i5/i7 systems had. Yes, I know XP is now considered obsolete, but I've hated Win7 with a passion every time I've been forced to use it. It's like MS went out of their way to change everything they possible could just to confuse people who've used previous versions of Windows. Run Windows Media Player and try to find an option to open files from inside the program. I couldn't find one...
Anyway, I haven't switched over to the new system yet because I still need to get used to it and configure it. Already I ran into a major annoyance; AutoPlay. After looking all through the control panel for some way to turn it off, I finally figured out that it was in drive properties. I went through the list and set every one to "Take No Action". Of course as soon as I inserted a data disc in the drive, it promptly opened an Explorer window. Recheck all the settings, select "Take No Action", click "Apply", insert a disc and it opens an Explorer window. ARGH!!!
So I look on the net for how to turn this off, which leads me into lengthy articles about how AutoRun is one of the major ways that people's systems get infected with viruses. I'd actually forgotten how Windows will happily execute whatever instructions it finds on the disc/USB drive, since I'd disabled them on my W98 system long ago. Naturally all the articles recommended completely turning off AutoRun.
Which is typical, another MS 'feature' that is too dangerous to use. I swear if MS designed cars, the default factory setting would be for the doors to open and the engine to start anytime someone got within six feet of it. Convenient? Yes. Smart? Not even remotely!
So they added a huge security vulnerability, at least they gave you an easy way to control it, right? Nope! In order to turn off AutoRun, you have to have XP Pro, go to the Run option, type in the name of the group policy editor, look under the proper category and then enable the option to disable AutoRun! Yup, you have to enable one option to disable another. If you don't have XP Pro, you either have to add a line directly to the registry, or use Tweak UI to disable AutoRun for all drive letters. Somehow that doesn't seem quite as safe as telling it to turn it off for ALL drives.
So at least then you're safe, right? Nope! If I read the articles correctly, even after you disable AutoRun, the default behavior for double-clicking and right-clicking a drive can be controlled by an "autorun.inf" file on the disc. So even with AutoRun disabled, you can still get infected by just double-clicking to open an Explorer window! To prevent this, you have to add a special line to the registry.
Not to mention that in XP, holding down the Shift key while inserting a disc disables AutoRun, while in Vista/Win7, holding down the Shift key does the exact opposite and forces AutoRun to execute!
So in summary, MS added a 'feature' that seems tailor-made for infecting computers with viruses and malware and to disable it you have to use an obscure command in XP Pro or change the registry, plus you have to change the registry either way to protect yourself from "autorun.inf" files.
Oh did I mention that some versions of Windows have a bug that causes them to just ignore the AutoRun settings and execute whatever is on the disc regardless?
Viruses existed before Windows and virus authors were always looking for new ways to spread their crap and infect systems. Just how stupid do you have to be to create a system that is expressly designed to automatically execute instructions without a user's knowledge or permission? How could they not see that such a system would be the perfect security hole for spreading viruses?
So, you have a post about an obsolete operating system that you can't believe has security holes which you state later they fix.
So you're saying that the age of the OS excuses the fact that the designers were stupid enough to intentionally include a feature that will execute code on any removable device you attach to the system without your knowledge or permission?
mistermsk wrote:
Vista and Win7, you have to hold down the shift key you stated.
No, you mis-understood. In XP, holding down the Shift key was a way to temporarily disable AutoRun in case you were inserting a disc or drive that you didn't fully trust. For example, it was a way to keep Sony CDs from installing the Sony Rootkit on your system. Vista & Win7 reverse that function such that holding down the Shift key will actually force AutoRun to execute regardless of the normal AutoRun settings. In other words, people who learned that holding down the Shift Key will prevent possibly malicious software from running when they insert a disc will now be telling the system to execute what's on the disc regardless of the normal AutoRun settings.
It would be like car makes changing the lock system so that when the button is up, the doors are locked and you have to press it down to unlock them. How many people would end up leaving their cars unlocked by mistake simply because the designers decided to change something for no apparent reason?
Also, MS never fixed this gaping security hole in Win7. AutoRun is still present and active. It will happily execute whatever instructions it finds on a CD or DVD without any input from the user. You don't have to hold down the Shift key for it to execute code it finds on a disc, that's just a way to force it to do so if you normally have AutoRun disabled.
mistermsk wrote:
You also stated you have a 64-bit processor which you desided to put on a 32bit operating system. Also XP you can not do an upgrade to windows 7. You have to buy the full install. Really, XP is not a bad operating system but soon Microsoft is going to stop making security updates for it. Which is on reason the company I work for is getting away from XP.
Well, I'm kind of funny in that I like to be able to run third party software on my computer rather than just play with the OS all day. I especially like games. Unfortunately, everything I've read says that both 64-bit versions of Windows and Win7 pretty much suck for backwards compatibility with games. There have been a ton of games released in the last 5-7 years that I haven't been able to play because they won't run on W98. I didn't see much sense in going from an older system that won't play these games to a newer system that won't play these games.
mistermsk wrote:
Kinda funny you talk about Windows and viruses. If you run a virus scan and don't click on random emailings usually you'll be fine.
Just a year or two ago there were reports of systems getting infected from things like (brand-new) flash drives and other USB devices that came right from the factory with viruses on them. People plugged them in, AutoRun found an "autorun.inf" on it and blindly executed it.
mistermsk wrote:
Most of the computers I had to fix are people without good knowledge of computers.
When it comes to fixing Windows XP problems, I'm not very knowledgeable either. Other people ask me to look at their systems and see if I can speed them up. I go through the Startup and take out everything that isn't essential. I follow guides on the net for turning off unnecessary services. I do a virus scan which comes up negative. I do a malware scan and it only finds minor stuff like tracking cookies. After all this, their systems still take 10+ minutes to boot and 30-45 seconds to open a window. I don't have the faintest clue why their systems are running like molasses even after I've cleaned the Startup and turned off everything they don't actually need. I have no idea how to find what's bogging down the system. Nothing in Task Manager jumps out at me, there aren't many programs running, nothing seems to be hogging the CPU, but yet you can still go take a bathroom break, get a soda and check your messages in the time it takes for even a small program to run. WHY???
My new system is fast right now. It boots up in under a minute, programs open almost instantly, etc. I just worry that over time it will end up like everyone else's system. Every XP system I've ever used that wasn't freshly installed has been frustratingly slow and I have no idea why.
Joined: 29 Jun 2009 Age: 40 Posts: 2617 Location: Baltimore, MD Favorite Games: Ultima ][, Wasteland
Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 1:40 pm Post subject:
Rekrul wrote:
mistermsk wrote:
So, you have a post about an obsolete operating system that you can't believe has security holes which you state later they fix.
So you're saying that the age of the OS excuses the fact that the designers were stupid enough to intentionally include a feature that will execute code on any removable device you attach to the system without your knowledge or permission?
What is wrong with auto-executing CDs. When they had this in mind, they were thinking you would buy your app or game from a store and it would work. This would of been fine if that stayed true. However, 3rd party shareware CDs, ISP CDs, and a whole bunch more came out which, I would assume, they didn't think about. Kinda' like know what you put into your computer.
Quote:
Well, I'm kind of funny in that I like to be able to run third party software on my computer rather than just play with the OS all day. I especially like games. Unfortunately, everything I've read says that both 64-bit versions of Windows and Win7 pretty much suck for backwards compatibility with games. There have been a ton of games released in the last 5-7 years that I haven't been able to play because they won't run on W98. I didn't see much sense in going from an older system that won't play these games to a newer system that won't play these games.
Considering when I bought Office 2010, I just downloaded the ISO directly from Microsoft and installed it right onto my computer. That is great Microsoft does that now. I really haven't used the CD player at all. I get music from I-Tunes and other places so no need to buy CDs anymore. So, really, I think it is going to go the way of the floppy disk for modern computers.
Quote:
mistermsk wrote:
Kinda funny you talk about Windows and viruses. If you run a virus scan and don't click on random emailings usually you'll be fine.
Just a year or two ago there were reports of systems getting infected from things like (brand-new) flash drives and other USB devices that came right from the factory with viruses on them. People plugged them in, AutoRun found an "autorun.inf" on it and blindly executed it.
That is why I re-format my flash drives in a Solaris or a Linux box. They have utilities to remove all that secondary crap if you are lucky. I received a flash drive from a vendor one time. It was his business card. Soon as I stuck it in virus checker went off. Pulled it out. Computer did not get infected, luckily, because of the virus checker. It was hard coded somehow. I tossed it. So, I can say that is very true.
Quote:
ut I've hated Win7 with a passion every time I've been forced to use it. It's like MS went out of their way to change everything they possible could just to confuse people who've used previous versions of Windows. Run Windows Media Player and try to find an option to open files from inside the program. I couldn't find one...
Just wait for Windows 8 to come out. Tiles and everything! I will say the best operating system for its time was 98SE. I loved that with a passion. However, with me needing a powerful computer with lots of RAM for Visual Studio 2010 and all that. I could not stay with the old one.
In regards to Microsoft changing everything. I really hate the big button. What was wrong with the top menu bar? Yes, it didn't look as good but sometimes functionality has to come before looking cool. _________________
Joined: 31 Jan 2002 Age: 55 Posts: 1457 Location: USA, Texas Fav Game: Project Firestart
Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 3:59 pm Post subject:
Honestly, Rekrul, this stuff has been beaten to death for a decade now. It's hardly relevant these days. I still use XP and so what, autoplay still prompts me for what to do. Big deal. Get Win7, get Ubuntu WTF with lovely wonderful Unity. Get whatever, there will always be something to bitch about. _________________
I run Win7 64 bit. I haven't had a problem playing any of my games, including moldy oldies like Jagged Alliance 2 and Master of Orion II. Some require free user-built modifications, but no problems.
Whoever told you the 64 bit OS is bad for gaming doesn't know what they are talking about.
An anecdote: I refused to move to Windows until 1998. I bought a machine that came with Windows 95 and I stripped it off. I begrudgingly installed Windows 98 when I couldn't get good software for DOS anymore.
I didn't upgrade to XP until 2004... maybe later. I did so begrudgingly (again) because Windows 98 was "fine" up until I couldn't get drivers for new hardware anymore.
I upgraded to Windows 7 quickly because I wanted 8 gigs of RAM and XP won't recognize that much.
Windows 7 is a great OS and I highly recommend it. You should spend some more time with it. I'm sure you'll like it too after you acclimate yourself with the intricacies.
No need to waste CPU cycles to run the same OS design so XP Pro is the only version I need. Not like I can't watch 1080p video with 7.1 sound with it and I have 360/PS3 for gaming so DX10 not important.
Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 7:51 am Post subject: Re: Just how stupid are MS Windows designers?
Rekrul wrote:
Run Windows Media Player and try to find an option to open files from inside the program. I couldn't find one...
Ctrl+O doesn't work?
MS Windows designers are human beings. They make mistakes. But so do people who create Linux, and MacOs and well everything else you run. Every OS has its issues.
I used XP for as long as I could, I finally upgraded because 3G of memory just wasn't cutting it. Part of the problem is bloated memory, but dealing with photos and movies, extra memory helps.
Win 7 has some drawbacks (I still hate the changes they made to the task bar) but for the most part is it as least as good as XP.
I don't play a ton of games, but the games I have played seem to work just fine on my 64 bit machine. _________________
Win 7 is nowhere near as fast as XP, if it was you could watch a DVD on a Pentium II 366mhz laptop with 128mb of RAM in Windows 7 just like you can in XP. This is not possible even if you had the best graphics card with Win 7 drivers and 768mb of RAM on such a low speed machine either, Win 7/Vista wastes CPU power and disk bandwidth like there is no tomorrow.
Like I said I don't need to downgrade to even more bloat, XP is the ONLY time MS got an OS remotely right IMO and everything added since is pure bloat. This is why XP is still in many corporate clients, they have no interest in wasting money to keep the same efficiency with hardware upgrades to CPUs/RAM/GPU/10000rpm SATA-2 or 3 drives etc
Good lord man if 3Gb isn't enough for you you must be editing pictures in 10000x8000 resolution? With 1gb of RAM I have 40 different web pages open in Chrome on this thing
Each to their own but as my machine does everything it needs to I see no reason to ruin the setup.
Joined: 21 May 2009 Age: 38 Posts: 945 Location: UK London
Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:47 pm Post subject:
jt-3d wrote:
Giana Brother wrote:
After about 3 years I'm still not used to "Programs And Features" and it being where it is ,Still trying to find "Add Remove"
isn't it right there, 'Remove a Program' or something?
Yes, It used to be called "Add Remove Programs" so it was 1st in the top left ,now its called "Programs And Features" it's somewhere in the middle,
I will never get used to it.
C64Knight wrote:
Good lord man if 3Gb isn't enough for you you must be editing pictures in 10000x8000 resolution?
Umm, the fact that it allows stealth software installation? How do you think the Sony rootkit got installed on systems? People put music CDs in their optical drives, Windows looked at the disc, saw that it had auto-booting code on it and secretly installed Sony's malware to prevent ripping the disc. Not only did it open up significant security vulnerabilities, there were also reports that it used system resources all the time, slowing down the system and that it interfered with some CD/DVD burning. All of which would never have happened without AutoRun.
mistermsk wrote:
When they had this in mind, they were thinking you would buy your app or game from a store and it would work. This would of been fine if that stayed true. However, 3rd party shareware CDs, ISP CDs, and a whole bunch more came out which, I would assume, they didn't think about. Kinda' like know what you put into your computer.
Shareware existed before AutoRun was introduced in Windows 95 and people had been trading user-written software all the way back to the 8-bit days. To say that they never considered the possibly that a user would get software from any other source other than a store is to admit that they were stupid. And even if this were a valid argument for back when CDs were hard to produce, there's no excuse for them continuing to include it long after it has been proven to be a vulnerability that can be easily exploited.
mistermsk wrote:
Kinda funny you talk about Windows and viruses. If you run a virus scan and don't click on random emailings usually you'll be fine.
Even though this quote is from a previous message, I wanted to add that you can thank the idiots at MS for the idea that reading a random piece of email is dangerous. This bit of stupidity came from MS integrating Outlook Express with Explorer to automatically render HTML in email, and a preview pane that would automatically open all attachments. Once again, you have MS intentionally adding random code execution to turn what was previously a perfectly safe activity in one that is perfect for spreading viruses and infecting systems.
mistermsk wrote:
That is why I re-format my flash drives in a Solaris or a Linux box. They have utilities to remove all that secondary crap if you are lucky. I received a flash drive from a vendor one time. It was his business card. Soon as I stuck it in virus checker went off. Pulled it out. Computer did not get infected, luckily, because of the virus checker. It was hard coded somehow. I tossed it. So, I can say that is very true.
So in other words, you now have to be afraid of plugging in a simple storage device because of the idiotic choice of the MS designers to automatically run whatever code they happen to find on a new device?
Am I the only one who sees how monumentally screwed up that is? Nobody else seems to think it's a big deal that this is the default setting for every version of Windows.
When someone else finds way to execute random code on a system without the user's knowledge or permission, it's called a vulnerability and everyone cries out for a fix. When MS includes the exact same thing in their OS, it's called a 'feature' and everyone applauds it.
mistermsk wrote:
Just wait for Windows 8 to come out. Tiles and everything!
I've seen videos of it and I hate it even more than Win7. I'm sure businesses are going to be thrilled at having to retrain all their staff in how to use a radically different version of Windows. Most people today can barely deal with using a computer as it is. Throw a completely new UI at them and they'll be lost.
jt-3d wrote:
Honestly, Rekrul, this stuff has been beaten to death for a decade now. It's hardly relevant these days.
It's relevant as long as Windows still automatically executes code, straight out of the box, and makes it virtually impossible for less technical users to turn that feature off. Not that most of them would, as it would mean an extra step in using their systems...
jt-3d wrote:
I still use XP and so what, autoplay still prompts me for what to do. Big deal. Get Win7, get Ubuntu WTF with lovely wonderful Unity. Get whatever, there will always be something to bitch about.
I was expressing an opinion. Besides, most of the things that people dislike about a particular OS, aren't gaping security holes which are designed to execute random code without permission.
sidvicious wrote:
Most people who don't like autoplay disable it instead of whining like an incompetent user....
I did. At least I hope I did, it's hard to be 100% sure since MS went to great lengths to make it hard to completely disable AutoRun.
Lazy J wrote:
I run Win7 64 bit. I haven't had a problem playing any of my games, including moldy oldies like Jagged Alliance 2 and Master of Orion II. Some require free user-built modifications, but no problems.
Assuming you can find such user-made patches.
I stumbled across a post on the Lucasarts forums where users were complaining that their store-bought copies of games such as Jedi Knight II, Jedi Academy, etc, wouldn't install on Win7 due to changes that MS made to the installer sub-system.
Lazy J wrote:
Whoever told you the 64 bit OS is bad for gaming doesn't know what they are talking about.
A friend with the 64-bit version of Win7 has had a hell of a time running some old software. It's not even big complicated games either, but more simple stuff, like card games, or scrabble, that you'd think would work fine. Next time I talk to him, I'll try and remember to ask him for specific titles.
Another friend has run into trouble trying to run some older applications on 64-bit Win7.
Of course, it's hard to know if the 64-bit version is the problem, or just the fact that it's Win7.
Lazy J wrote:
An anecdote: I refused to move to Windows until 1998. I bought a machine that came with Windows 95 and I stripped it off. I begrudgingly installed Windows 98 when I couldn't get good software for DOS anymore.
I never used DOS and frankly the shots of putrid CGA graphics in the magazines didn't do anything to entice me. I also didn't like the idea of having to mess with drivers and config files just to run games.
Lazy J wrote:
I didn't upgrade to XP until 2004... maybe later. I did so begrudgingly (again) because Windows 98 was "fine" up until I couldn't get drivers for new hardware anymore.
Up until now, my only experience with XP has been on other people's systems and they were invariably slower than mine, even when the specs were higher. Slower to boot, slower to shut down, slower to open windows, etc. After using such a system over someone else's home, coming home to mine was such a relief. The only things I really miss are the ability to use files larger than 4GB and new software support. Other than that, I'd be happy to stay with 98. It's easy to maintain and doesn't get bogged down in tons of 'services'. It seems with XP, they tried to make everything a 'service'.
THEWIZ wrote:
Rekrul wrote:
Run Windows Media Player and try to find an option to open files from inside the program. I couldn't find one...
Ctrl+O doesn't work?
To be honest, I didn't think to try that because I was looking for something simple for my friend to click on. Most people have trouble remembering hotkey combinations unless it's something they use every day.
THEWIZ wrote:
MS Windows designers are human beings. They make mistakes. But so do people who create Linux, and MacOs and well everything else you run. Every OS has its issues.
MS has a long history of adding deliberate security vulnerabilities and calling them features.
Internet Explorer allowed web sites to include ActiveX, which allowed for remote code execution, leading to sites being able to infect your system. Rather than admit it was a mistake to do this, MS then started jumping through hoops to try and 'fix' this vulnerability by including restrictions on its use. Knowledgable people avoid the problem by using a different browser.
Outlook Express allowed the use of HTML in email and automatically executed attachments via the preview pane. This allowed systems to become infected simply by opening a piece of email. Rather than admit that this was a mistake, MS then jumped through hoops to leave these features enabled, but impose restrictions on what would be executed. Knowledgeable people avoid the problem by using a different email client.
WMV files allowed browser triggers that would open a web browser and send it to a particular site just by playing the file. Rather than admit that this was a mistake, they eventually included the option to turn this 'feature' off. Most knowledgeable people either avoid WMV files like the plague, or they will only play them in third-party player programs.
AutoRun will automatically execute whatever instructions it finds on a disc or USB device. This allows systems to become infected simply by inserting a disc or plugging in a flash drive. Rather than admit that this was a mistake, MS adds extra stuff to try and lessen the impact of this problem while still leaving it completely enabled and difficult to turn off.
So in summary, MS has managed to turn the previously safe activities of visiting web sites, opening email, playing video files and even just inserting a disc/drive, into huge, gaping security holes. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad...
Run Windows Media Player and try to find an option to open files from inside the program. I couldn't find one...
Ctrl+O doesn't work?
To be honest, I didn't think to try that because I was looking for something simple for my friend to click on. Most people have trouble remembering hotkey combinations unless it's something they use every day.
I have to admit, back about 4 WMP ago, when they dropped the menu I thought it was stupid. Thank WinAmp for that. But most MS product have something in the upper left corner you can click on. Or hit the Alt key.
Rekrul wrote:
THEWIZ wrote:
MS Windows designers are human beings. They make mistakes. But so do people who create Linux, and MacOs and well everything else you run. Every OS has its issues.
MS has a long history of adding deliberate security vulnerabilities and calling them features.
I'll reiterate. MS Windows designers are human beings. Sometimes they make a mistake. Some of those "security vulnerabilities" were things people thought were a great idea... Autoplay? Isn't there a thread right now in the other forum ASKING for autoplay on the 64?
I'm sure you'll figure out a way to blame Microsoft for the recent Mac Virus you got JUST visiting a website? Or perhaps it was Microsoft's fault when the mail work pretty much shut down the entire unix world a couple decades back?
They aren't perfect, and sometimes they make mistakes. But I could say the same for linux designers. _________________
rekrul, I work in a large corporation and I have a lot of IT contacts across a particular industry, and I can tell you that there are no plans for upgrades to Win8. Most are only now upgrading to Win7 on the desktop, although they have been using WinServer 2008/R2 for a while.
As for MS being the gaping security hole, not quite true. Sure they have had issues in the past, but that would have been the same for whichever company's OS was ruling the market place. The black hats see better value in targetting a larger installed base. If anything MS are a victim of their own success. MS are now better placed to deal with security patching, better than Apple, better than Linux. In the last few weeks there have been vulnerabilites exposed throughout the Apple OS and they have not been dealt with as elegantly as MS now deal with theirs. Many pundits believe Apple to be 10 years behind MS in the OS patching capability.
To be clear, to stop any Apple fanbois coming at me, though bring it on of you feel game , when it comes to software and the OS in particular, the product that dominates the market will be the prime target of the black hats. And all software will always and forever have vulnerabilites.
Joined: 29 Jun 2009 Age: 40 Posts: 2617 Location: Baltimore, MD Favorite Games: Ultima ][, Wasteland
Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 2:12 pm Post subject:
@Tigro
100% Agree.
@Rekrul
Why complain about it? If you don't like it use a different OS. Mac and Linux have made big strides in the last 10 years. Android is up and coming as well. If you don't want to buy a Mac, then there are instructions for installing OS X on a IBM Compatible (Hackintosh).
If you say, well, I like the windows games. Do what most of the Mac users have been doing and run them on a VM. Actually, I have a VM dedicated web browsing. This way, I don't have to worry about getting my main computer infected. What is nice is I start from a fresh snapshot each time so I don't have to worry about previous sessions. What I do is load it up run any security updates. Make a new snapshot and then use it. One of the safer ways to explorer the Web.
With a VM you can run Windows XP on Linux without having to go through Wine or anything. I tend to use VirtualBox but there are other VMs out there as well.
You can complain all you want about security holes but really it is up to you to run a virus checker, spyware checkers, update your OS, etc... I think we get that you don't like Microsoft. However, if it wasn't for Microsoft the Commodore 64 and the Amiga could have been way different if they existed at all. _________________
I don't like Mac computers or their OS, I don't like Windows and I don't like Linux.
In fact since I bought a Amiga 1000 in 1986 I don't like ANY new computer. My choice is therefore down to the one which offers the least bloat and the least inconvenience (apps/emulators) and so I am stuck on XP until something else acceptable comes along.
Maybe when AROS is finished I will jump to a dual boot of that with XP but for now it is XP + a million and one emulators and utilities to help me with my passion for retro
Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Posts: 387 Location: Cybernet USA
Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 4:41 am Post subject:
mistermsk wrote:
... I think we get that you don't like Microsoft. However, if it wasn't for Microsoft the Commodore 64 and the Amiga could have been way different if they existed at all.
That would probably be true. We owe it to M$ (and Jack perhaps) for the introductory BASIC that was built-in with the immediate conveniency upon boot up in all Commodore 8-bits, as well as the general MS-DOS in Commodore and everything-else IBM compats. Seeing that practically everything rose up from the ashes of the KIM-1, it's hard to say how things could have been different. Perhaps these micro's could've gotten stuck in the world of CPM and some other sort of high level language, but since Bill and M$ was pan-handling BASIC in those days, that's what we got stuck with. And the rest is history, as they say.
I like Windows 7 myself, as well as XP... as well as ME, 98SE, 95 and 3.11, heh. _________________
If you patch up ME then it works great, though not any better than any of the NT-based Windows, but still ok. It's just one of those Win versions that just got off the assembly line too early, similar to what happened to early Vista, as most critics have paralleled it with. There is also an unofficial build that binds parts of 98SE and parts of ME together to form a "hybrid" OS, combining the "best of both worlds" strong points of both OSes. It's called 98SE2ME of which I've also use/used.
Yeah, sorry never tried BOB although I am aware of it and how "stanky" it was, but it would still be nice to try it out (install) one of these days. _________________
... I think we get that you don't like Microsoft. However, if it wasn't for Microsoft the Commodore 64 and the Amiga could have been way different if they existed at all.
That would probably be true. We owe it to M$ (and Jack perhaps) for the introductory BASIC that was built-in with the immediate conveniency upon boot up in all Commodore 8-bits, as well as the general MS-DOS in Commodore and everything-else IBM compats. Seeing that practically everything rose up from the ashes of the KIM-1, it's hard to say how things could have been different. Perhaps these micro's could've gotten stuck in the world of CPM and some other sort of high level language, but since Bill and M$ was pan-handling BASIC in those days, that's what we got stuck with. And the rest is history, as they say.
I like Windows 7 myself, as well as XP... as well as ME, 98SE, 95 and 3.11, heh.
1. BASIC was literally that...very basic on the VIC and C64. Acorn Computers massacred every effort Microsoft ever made with BASIC. As did the creators of Basic Lightning/Laser Basic for most 8 bits, AMOS, Blitz. It's not like they wrote the kernel
2. Amiga DOS has more in common with OS/2 or Unix than the quick and dirty rubbish from Microsoft in use from 70s to mid 90s AKA MS-DOS. The C64 had longer filenames than piece of crap DOS 8.3 let alone a super efficient multitasking OS with GUI with 100s of chars.
But please don't spread the myth already perpetuated by many so called historical documentaries about our past where we somehow went from Atari 2600 to Apple II to 128k Mac to Windows Multimedia PC. SID taught people the value of a good sound chip, Amiga taught people you could have animation and sampled sound all supported by the OS. The truth is C64 had some ways it was better than 1982 PC and Amiga wiped the floor with any PC before XGA+386 Windows 95/98 or IBM's OS/2 came along. Microsoft is just some shit that was their, very few years out of the last 35 have Microsoft produced anything remotely cutting edge.
I put it to you all that had Jay Miner and co had the sort of money those losers at Microsoft/Apple pissed away in the early 80s the Amiga chipset would have been finished in 1983...BEFORE THE MAC or EGA PC. Now that would have been mind blowing, an Amiga 1000 in 1984 before the mono Mac 128k
If you patch up ME then it works great, though not any better than any of the NT-based Windows, but still ok. It's just one of those Win versions that just got off the assembly line too early, similar to what happened to early Vista, as most critics have paralleled it with. There is also an unofficial build that binds parts of 98SE and parts of ME together to form a "hybrid" OS, combining the "best of both worlds" strong points of both OSes. It's called 98SE2ME of which I've also use/used.
Yeah, sorry never tried BOB although I am aware of it and how "stanky" it was, but it would still be nice to try it out (install) one of these days.
As an engineer I will explain Windows ME in laymens terms =
1 It has the crash protection, security and resilience of Windows 95
2 It has the resource requirements of Windows 2000
I think those numbnutz at Microsoft got those two requirements cock eyed
Joined: 31 Jan 2002 Age: 55 Posts: 1457 Location: USA, Texas Fav Game: Project Firestart
Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 5:01 am Post subject:
Rekrul wrote:
Shareware existed before AutoRun was introduced in Windows 95 and people had been trading user-written software all the way back to the 8-bit days. To say that they never considered the possibly that a user would get software from any other source other than a store is to admit that they were stupid. And even if this were a valid argument for back when CDs were hard to produce, there's no excuse for them continuing to include it long after it has been proven to be a vulnerability that can be easily exploited.
But remember Microsoft's attitude: Their products are flawless. If Windows conflicts with somebody else's software, it's that maufacturer's fault, not MS's. If autorun causes a problem with a user's machine. It's the fault of the user or whever put whatever on the disc that was run. Not autorun's fault. They don't care about shareware or anything that isn't made by MS. That's somebody else's lookout. If you only run MS stuff, there will be no problem.
I think they finally dropped autorun in Win8. They never believed anybody would blame them for problems caused by autorun. And frankly it really is the user's responsibility to watch out for his system. I'm a believer in personal responsibility, though autorun should be set to prompt by default. _________________
I don't like Mac computers or their OS, I don't like Windows and I don't like Linux.
That's kind of like a meat lover saying I don't like Beef, Lamb or Chicken, doesn't leave much on the menu.
I run Win7 with a VM XP on the same machine, covers all bases in this Windows world we live in. I've tried the various Linux versions, Ubuntu, Kubuntu etc, whilst they are good, I just don't think I can be bothered getting used to how they run. And the command prompt still to get things done, really?
As for Mac OS's, I ain't drinking that Kool-Aid, never have, never will.
Win7, I've been running it for about 2 years now and I can't recall it ever crashing once, and my PC is on at least 8 - 10 hours a day. It seems very stable indeed. _________________
Commodore 8bit Designs - C8D << All projects available for download now.
I've finally stopped buying Commodore gear.
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Tiles and everything! I will say the best operating system for its time was 98SE. I loved that with a passion. However, with me needing a powerful computer with lots of RAM for Visual Studio 2010 and all that. I could not stay with the old one.
, when it comes to software and the OS in particular, the product that dominates the market will be the prime target of the black hats. And all software will always and forever have vulnerabilites.
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