Commodore 64 (C64) Forum Index
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
Review: BasicWayne C128/1581 Dual Power Supply
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Commodore 64 (C64) Forum Index -> Other 8-bit Commodore computers
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
airship
C64 Enthusiast
C64 Enthusiast


Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Age: 61
Posts: 689
Location: Iowa, USA

PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:10 pm    Post subject: Review: BasicWayne C128/1581 Dual Power Supply Reply with quote

This is the most embarrassing thing I have ever written. Please ignore. And never, ever buy one of these power supplies. Thank you.

Price: $19.99 + $10 shpg., eBay

A single black box with power for two of my most-used C= hardware items. I sent my money and I took my chances.

The box is about the same size as my C128 supply, so score for saving space. Besides, I can now sell my 1581 supply and recoup some of the cost. So it gets a bonus for value.

First potential problem I see is that the box has no vents and no fan. Does it get hot? According to others here, yes. I haven't use it much yet, so I don't know. I certainly won't be putting it on the floor. I'm already planning to Dremel in a few vents, and maybe even install a fan for good measure. One reason I got this thing is so that I could reliably power C128 ad-ons like a 512K REU, Navaronne cart port expander, etc., so I think a fan is probably a good idea for the long term.

It was dead when I tried it, so I opened it up:



It's got a 9V 1 amp Jameco transformer in there. Very burly, considering it's only supplying the 9v AC to the C128. Extra points for overkill.

Hmmmm. The supply cable to the 1581 appears new, good quality. The C128 cable is obviously recycled, though in good shape. I'm not surprised; I don't think the connector is made by anyone any more.

NOTE: If you have to scrap a C128 power supply, cut off and save the cable! You or someone else can use it to build a new supply!

Now for the supplies - yes, there are two totally separate, completely identical power supply boards in the box, one for the 1581 and one for the C128. They're off-the-shelf supplies labeled YH-301B-5 REV 5. Each has a voltage regulator attached to a one square inch heat sink, and they get HOT! Burned my finger checking one to see. (Idiot.) Another argument for installing a fan. The circuit boards seem to be attached to the case with double-stick tape - no screws.

So am I happy? Mostly. On the upside, I spent $30 for two power supplies with modern components, and that seems like a pretty good deal. On the downside, I have to replace the power switch, install a fan, and while I'm at it, install a fuse. I really don't want my house to burn down.

_________________
airship
(Former Managing Editor, INFO Magazine)


Last edited by airship on Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
rizthomas
Groupie in Training
Groupie in Training


Joined: 08 May 2007
Posts: 134
Location: Surrey, B.C. , Canada

PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks like the transformer is both supplying the needed AC power for both. If so, is 1 Amp good enough? Seems underrated..of course I maybe wrong...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
trip6
C64 Enthusiast
C64 Enthusiast


Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Age: 41
Posts: 727
Location: Buffalo, New York USA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please post the construction photos if you can...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
groepaz
Immortal Grandmaster of C64
Immortal Grandmaster of C64


Joined: 13 Oct 2004
Posts: 4689

PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It's got a 9V 1 amp Jameco transformer in there. Very burly, considering it's only supplying the 9v AC to the C128. Extra points for overkill.

no overkill there really, 1A is what the original c128 powersupply is rated at (for 9vac).

Quote:
So am I happy? Mostly. On the upside, I spent $30 for two power supplies with modern components, and that seems like a pretty good deal. On the downside, I have to replace the power switch, install a fan, and while I'm at it, install a fuse. I really don't want my house to burn down.

mmmh i dont know. $30 for something that you dont feel save to operate, unless you install a fuse yourself (and which probably even then violates more than one regulation) ?
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
c64web
Immortal Grandmaster of C64
Immortal Grandmaster of C64


Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 3631
Location: Qld OZ

PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rizthomas wrote:
It looks like the transformer is both supplying the needed AC power for both. If so, is 1 Amp good enough? Seems underrated..of course I maybe wrong...


No the two modules are switch-mode power supplies and get their power directly from
the AC power socket, 9vac is supplies from the 9vac transformer as described.

Price is fantastic worth buying one of these to build yourself a better power supply from
the parts.

Check where the 240/110vac goes to the board's you may find a discrete fuse inline
on each power supply board. fingers crossed.

Cooling is a must for these units, in wall warts the special plastic used transfers heat well and the heat-sinks are normally against the plastic or surrounded in copper foil to help transfer this heat to the surrounding plastic case using convection, the heat is transferred to the air one of the reasons they feel warm, but should never be too hot to hold in your hand tightly.

A Fan and or Vents would be needed, But more importantly a fuse is needed to make this unit safe, use a externally mounted fuse holder like this, inline with the live wire before the two modules and transformer. Smile


_________________
Looking for a causal coder, Python/MYSQL/PHP/Java. PM Me Smile


Last edited by c64web on Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:35 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
gklinger
Immortal Grandmaster of C64
Immortal Grandmaster of C64


Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Age: 43
Posts: 5787
Location: Toronto, CANADA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For those not following the General idea for a repairable heavy duty power supply thread, here are some pictures of the insides of my basicwayne special:





Mine gets too hot for comfort so I don't use it. Money down the toilet as far as I'm concerned.

/me sighs
_________________
Here's to feeling good all the time.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
groepaz
Immortal Grandmaster of C64
Immortal Grandmaster of C64


Joined: 13 Oct 2004
Posts: 4689

PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
A Fan and or Vents but more importantly a fuse would be needed to make this unit safe

and please fix those wires somewhere, so they dont run over the (potentially hot!) metal used for cooling /o\
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
c64web
Immortal Grandmaster of C64
Immortal Grandmaster of C64


Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 3631
Location: Qld OZ

PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

groepaz wrote:
Quote:
A Fan and or Vents but more importantly a fuse would be needed to make this unit safe

and please fix those wires somewhere, so they don't run over the (potentially hot!) metal used for cooling /o\
Good Call groepaz.

I was just about to post that the AC power supply lead should be attached to the case
so it can't be pulled out exposing the live wires using Strain Relief Bush's.



These are cheap.

Price: $19.99 + $10 shpg. add another $10 for finishing this unit off yourself
still a bargain, but better done by the manufacturer.
_________________
Looking for a causal coder, Python/MYSQL/PHP/Java. PM Me Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Arkhan
Grandmaster of C64
Grandmaster of C64


Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 2301
Location: Earth (Ohio)

PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gklinger wrote:
For those not following the
Mine gets too hot for comfort so I don't use it. Money down the toilet as far as I'm concerned.

/me sighs


They make great bookends, at least!
_________________
Who the hell is General Failure, and why is he reading my disk?.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
eslapion
Grandmaster of C64
Grandmaster of C64


Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 2713
Location: Mourrial esti de tabarnak

PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pfff...
_________________
I have a crystal ball... it is rectangular in shape, made of beige plastic with a tag on it that says Tektronix TDS 1002.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
ready.
Über Groupie
Über Groupie


Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Age: 35
Posts: 327
Location: Trieste-Italy

PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it looks like the seller used ready off the shelf modules for the 5V and 12V. These shouldn't get too hot. The worst thing is the assembling of these parts! double-stick tape with no screws???? No strain relief bush???

Furthermore, since this is not a certified psu, I don't like to have the 220V/110V AC directly connected to the switcher board. The design with a step down transformer is much safer, I think. Even if something happens on the secondary side at the worst you get 24VAC or whatever voltage your transformer outputs on the secondary. Put fuses on the secondary and you should be pretty safe.

Be real careful when touching the switcher boards. If you turn ON the psu, with your commodore equipment not connected and then you turn the psu OFF, the capacitors inside remain charged with the 220/110 V!!!! I always put a LED at the output stage of my PSUs, not just for indicating ON/OFF state, but also to discarge the capacitors.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
ready.
Über Groupie
Über Groupie


Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Age: 35
Posts: 327
Location: Trieste-Italy

PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

airship: could you please read the name of the chip used as a switching regulator? the one attached to the heat sink.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
airship
C64 Enthusiast
C64 Enthusiast


Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Age: 61
Posts: 689
Location: Iowa, USA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ready. wrote:
airship: could you please read the name of the chip used as a switching regulator? the one attached to the heat sink.


Unfortunately, it's hidden behind a big cap and I can't read it.

I bought the parts for my mod yesterday. I don't when I can get it done because I found out that my drill's battery charging base is dead. Time to research getting a replacement. Sad
_________________
airship
(Former Managing Editor, INFO Magazine)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
eslapion
Grandmaster of C64
Grandmaster of C64


Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 2713
Location: Mourrial esti de tabarnak

PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ready. wrote:
it looks like the seller used ready off the shelf modules for the 5V and 12V. These shouldn't get too hot. The worst thing is the assembling of these parts! double-stick tape with no screws???? No strain relief bush???


I have an original north american C128 PSU here. It is rated for 5V@ up to 4.3A and 9Vac up to 1A.

There is no way in hell these puny switching modules are rated for more than 2A. Little more than an original C64 PSU (usually rated for 1.7A). Now if you use this to power a C128 with an REU attached, sure this thing is going to get burning hot. Its being used well beyond its normal capacity.

Quote:
Furthermore, since this is not a certified psu, I don't like to have the 220V/110V AC directly connected to the switcher board. The design with a step down transformer is much safer, I think.


It is much safer, not because Wayne's PSU doesn't have certification. This changes nothing to the laws of physics but quite simply because the high voltage connections are directly exposed.

In wayne's PSU, the mains is directly connected to the power switch with connectors close to each other and no insulation whatsoever. Also, BTW, I didn't see any fuse in there either. Good luck if there is a short circuit...

Quote:
Be real careful when touching the switcher boards. If you turn ON the psu, with your commodore equipment not connected and then you turn the psu OFF, the capacitors inside remain charged with the 220/110 V!!!! I always put a LED at the output stage of my PSUs, not just for indicating ON/OFF state, but also to discarge the capacitors.


Very good point, however, most "well made" UL registered or otherwise certified switchers have a built-in discharge resistors.

ALL power supplies I have ever sold have such a resistor built-in.

Altough the PSUs I sold lose their certifications because I modify the output cord, all parts that connect to the mains are either UL registered or CSA certified prior to being altered. They were high pot (galvanic isolation) passed.

Except perhaps for the Jameco 9Vac transfo, none of the parts in there have any safety testings certification.
_________________
I have a crystal ball... it is rectangular in shape, made of beige plastic with a tag on it that says Tektronix TDS 1002.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
airship
C64 Enthusiast
C64 Enthusiast


Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Age: 61
Posts: 689
Location: Iowa, USA

PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good points, all.

I just got all the parts to add a new switch, fuse, fan, wire nuts, and strain reliefs to this thing, but if it's underpowered compared to a standard C128 power supply, as eslapion asserts, I think I'm just going to part it out. I can always use the power supplies for some project or another.

Shucks.
_________________
airship
(Former Managing Editor, INFO Magazine)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
eslapion
Grandmaster of C64
Grandmaster of C64


Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 2713
Location: Mourrial esti de tabarnak

PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW, I sell Samsung UL registered switching PSUs for 8$ each.

They are rated for 5V @ up to 5A and 12V @ up to 1.5A

Combine one of these with a 9Vac 1A transfo and you have a perfect C64/C128 + 1541-II/1581 power supply with ample power.

... 8$ each !

However, they only work on 120Vac... not good for UK, EU or AU... mostly US and Canada only.
_________________
I have a crystal ball... it is rectangular in shape, made of beige plastic with a tag on it that says Tektronix TDS 1002.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Eddiie
Newbie


Joined: 07 Oct 2007
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 3:17 pm    Post subject: Basic Wayne = Basic Junk Reply with quote

I got one these for my C=64, SuperCPU, and MMCReply-RRNet + UIECSD.

IT CAN'T POWER IT!!!!!!!!!!!! Piece of crap! DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY!

His ad is B.S. is NOT enough power to power anything more than the C64.

PIECE OF CRAP.

I sent him an email telling him it wasn't enough power for even the C64/SCPU (dim LED) he never wrote back.
_________________
-Eddie
Telnet to my C= BBS! bbs.innercirclebbs.com
Port 23 = Centipede <down>, Port 64000 = C-Net 128 Under Development.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hurminator
Grandmaster of C64
Grandmaster of C64


Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Age: 41
Posts: 2483
Location: Columbus, Ohio

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 3:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Basic Wayne = Basic Junk Reply with quote

Eddiie wrote:
I got one these for my C=64, SuperCPU, and MMCReply-RRNet + UIECSD.

IT CAN'T POWER IT!!!!!!!!!!!! Piece of crap! DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY!

His ad is B.S. is NOT enough power to power anything more than the C64.

PIECE OF CRAP.

I sent him an email telling him it wasn't enough power for even the C64/SCPU (dim LED) he never wrote back.


I assume you are talking about Basic Wayne and not eslapion?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Eddiie
Newbie


Joined: 07 Oct 2007
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oops Sorry, yes. BasicWayne. (Its in the reply-post subject)

I have one from Eslap for my 128D, and works great!

Thanks Eslap!
Refund Wayne?
_________________
-Eddie
Telnet to my C= BBS! bbs.innercirclebbs.com
Port 23 = Centipede <down>, Port 64000 = C-Net 128 Under Development.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
c64web
Immortal Grandmaster of C64
Immortal Grandmaster of C64


Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 3631
Location: Qld OZ

PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Posting here may save others Smile it's a small world.
_________________
Looking for a causal coder, Python/MYSQL/PHP/Java. PM Me Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
hbhzth
Master of C64
Master of C64


Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Age: 41
Posts: 1026
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eddiie wrote:
oops Sorry, yes. BasicWayne. (Its in the reply-post subject)

I have one from Eslap for my 128D, and works great!

Thanks Eslap!
Refund Wayne?

Same person (basicwayne on ebay) also sells unoriginal cartridges for C64. I bought a HESMON64 cart. It was a colorprinter job done on a cheap eprom, same with manual. He says its the real thing and sells copies.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
amigaman07
Groupie in Training
Groupie in Training


Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Age: 43
Posts: 57
Location: Newcastle NSW

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 11:48 am    Post subject: RE: Commodore 128 Power Supply Reply with quote

Very Nice Purchase, Dual Power Supply for C128 & 1571 Disk Drive!!!

But, why Didn't it Work when you got it??? Shocked

What was the Fault with the Power Supply and did you rectify it easily???

Anyway, I recently aquired a Commodore 128 "Mint in Box" with all Manuals, but no Power Supply! So neededto get a C128 Power Supply!

I tried to get one everywhere, but no luck! Sad

I did however source some US 110V versions, but they were really Expensive (with Postage) and do not suite Australian 240V anyway!!!

So I decided to Make an Adapter!!!

An Adaper you say??? Yes! Laughing

Well you see, the Commodore Amiga has the Same Plug as the Commodore 128, but the Amiga uses 12V not 9V like the 128, a Problem!

Yet the Commodore 64 does use 9V like it's big SIS the 128, which got me thinking!

Grab 1 WORKING Commodore 64C Power Supply and 1 Dead Amiga Power Supply as a Lead Donor!

I Chopped the 5 Pin Square Cord off a Dead Amiga 600 Power Suppy and seperated the Wires on the cut End, the Colours are Black (Ground)(Pin 4), Brown (9VAC)(Pin 3), White (9VAC)(Pin 5), RED (+5VDC)(Pin 1) & a Bare Wire (N/C)(Pin 2), as per the downloaded C128 Power Supply Pin-Out (Computer End), available if you Google it!

Then I purchased a 7 Pin Din Round Female Connector, from FleaBay, similar to Commodore 64 at the Computer End.

Then Soldered the Black wire to Pin 2 on the 7 Pin Din Plug, Brown & White Wires to Pin 6 & Red wire to Pin 5. Following the Commodore 64 Power Supply Pin-Out (Computer End), available if you Google it!

But I Tested my Commodore 64C Power Supply with a MultiMeter and Checked all the Outputs First!

Looks Good, so now the TEST!

I plugged my New Adapter into the Commodore 64 Power Supply, then into my 128. PERFECT!

Then Switched it On!!! Drum... Rolling Eyes

It WORKS!!!!!!!!! Laughing

amigaman07
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dabone
C64 Enthusiast
C64 Enthusiast


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Age: 42
Posts: 749
Location: Chattanooga, TN. USA

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 128 requires more power than the 64 supply can provide reliably.

That setup has the potential to kill your 128.


Later,
dabone
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
thecellartroll
Über Groupie
Über Groupie


Joined: 13 May 2011
Posts: 363
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As above. C64 PSUs are untrustworthy buggers when they're used to power a C64. Your C128 will probably cause the C64 PSU to fail eventually, which may in turn fry stuff in the C128...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
eslapion
Grandmaster of C64
Grandmaster of C64


Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 2713
Location: Mourrial esti de tabarnak

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same as the 2 posts above!

Modding a C128 to turn it into a C64 PSU is great but its an old PSU and may fail quickly too.

Modding an Amiga 500/600 or 1200 PSU into a C64 or C128 PSU (by adding a 9Vac source), that works too.

Using a modded C64, C64c or Plus/4 PSU as a power supply for a C128, NO WAY - you want damaged equipment.

One crazy potential recipe is combining a modern 5Vdc wallwart rated for 2.5A or more, such as those provided with powered USB hubs with an old "2-prong" VIC-20 PSU which becomes your 9Vac source. The latter are usually rated for 30VA so they have far more than the 9VA (1A) a C64 or C128 will require.
_________________
I have a crystal ball... it is rectangular in shape, made of beige plastic with a tag on it that says Tektronix TDS 1002.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Commodore 64 (C64) Forum Index -> Other 8-bit Commodore computers All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Tip: Get C64 Forever for super-comfy C64 emulation with pre-installed games, demos and other goodies!


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group