Games Competition 2009 - Round 5 - Cast your votes!

Predator

This vote is for the game we will play in round 5 (May)

Commodore

The voting starts now and ends Sunday, May 10th, 23:59 (GMT).

Commodore

Vote for 5 games

Commodore

Remember to choose games suitable for competition play!

Commodore

Your first choice gets 5 points, second 4pts, third 3pts, fourth 2pts, fifth 1pt.

Commodore

The following games from previous rounds are not eligible for voting:

2009:
Round 4: Buggy Boy
Round 3: Midnight Resistance
Round 2: Zaxxon [link]
Round 1: Drelbs [link]

2008:
Round 12: Cabal [link]
Round 11: Citadel (Competition Edition) [link]
Round 10: Mega Apocalypse [link]
Round 09: Super Cycle [link]
Round 08: Mini-Putt [link]
Round 07: Hawkeye [link]
Round 06: Pastfinder [link]
Round 05: P.O.D. [link]
Round 04: Slamball [link]
Round 03: The Great American Cross Country Road Race [link]
Round 02: Turrican 2 [link]
Round 01: Zoo Mania [link]

2007:
Round 12: Atomino [link]
Round 11: Toy Bizarre [link]
Round 10: Cosmic Causeway [link]
Round 09: Zynaps [link]
Round 08: Tapper [link]
Round 07: Mayhem In Monsterland [link]
Round 06: Alien Syndrome [link]
Round 05: Slap Fight [link]
Round 04: Who Dares Wins II [link]
Round 03: IO [link]
Round 02: Impossible Mission [link]
Round 01: Blue Max [link]

2006:
Round 12: Super Pipeline II [link]
Round 11: Zolyx [link]
Round 10: Great Giana Sisters [link]
Round 09: Park Patrol [link]
Round 08: Delta [link]
Round 07: Pang [link]
Round 06: Motos [link]
Round 05: Krakout (Competition Edition)[link]
Round 04: Metro-Cross[link]
Round 03: SWIV [link]
Round 02: Hunter's Moon [link]
Round 01: Red L.E.D (Competition edition) [link]

2005:
Round 12: ...Traz [link]
Round 11: Operation Wolf [link]
Round 10: Way of the Exploding Fist [link]
Round 09: River Raid [link]
Round 08: Wonderboy [link]
Round 07: Anarchy [link]
Round 06: Spindizzy [link]
Round 05: Jeep Command [link]
Round 04: Beamrider [link]
Round 03: Boulder Dash (Competition Edition) [link]
Round 02: Zybex [link]
Round 01: Salamander [link]

2004:
Round 12: Rick Dangerous II [link]
Round 11: H.E.R.O. (Competition Edition) [link]
Round 10: Trailblazer [link]
Round 09: Ghouls 'n Ghosts [link]
Round 08: Space Taxi [link]
Round 07: Green Beret [link]
Round 06: Arkanoid [link]
Round 05: Iridis Alpha [link]
Round 04: IK+ [link]
Round 03: Ikari Warriors [link]
Round 02: Wonderboy in Monsterland [link]
Round 01: Thrust [link]

2003:
Round 12: Rainbow Islands [link]
Round 11: Dropzone [link]
Round 10: Gyruss [link]
Round 09: Leader Board Golf [link]
Round 08: Ghosts 'n Goblins [link]
Round 07: Armalyte [link]
Round 06: Paradroid [link]
Round 05: David's Midnight Magic [link]
Round 04: Wizard of Wor [link]
Round 03: Buggy Boy [link]
Round 02: Rodland [link]
Round 01: Bubble Bobble [link]
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dynamite · Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 8:58 am Post subject:

1. MicroProse Soccer

2. Smash T.V.

3. Quedex

4. Retrograde

5. Summer Games

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Parpala · Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 2:20 pm Post subject:

1. Rick Dangerous
2. Microprose Soccer
3. Summer Games
4. Test Drive II
5. Commando

Biscuit · Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 3:49 pm Post subject:

1. Chuckie Egg
2. Brainstorm
3. Power Drift
4. Catalypse
5. Ultimate Wizard
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zaraza · Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 3:58 pm Post subject:

1. Falcon Patrol

2. Rick Dangerous

3. Cybernoid II

4. Burning rubber

5. Summer games

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Jolly_Roger · Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 5:25 pm Post subject:

1. Catalypse

2. Satan's Hollow

3. BrainStorm

4. Repton

5. Zenji

SLF · Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 7:43 am Post subject:

1. Catalypse
2. Ultimate Wizard
3. Repton
4. Mr. Do's Castle
5. Retro Torque (really great racing game!)
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My top games: 1.Hawkeye, 2.Uridium, 3.Creatures II, 4.Delta, 5.Bubble Bobble, 6.Ikari Warriors, 7.Armalyte, 8.Bionic Commando, 9.Archon, 10.Buggy Boy.

Predator · Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 9:34 am Post subject:

I'm interested in the Microprose Soccer vote, but how would we play it in a compo? Is there a competition version of it at all?
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merman · Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 11:13 am Post subject:

Predator wrote:

I'm interested in the Microprose Soccer vote, but how would we play it in a compo? Is there a competition version of it at all?

It's not really suitable for competition play - you can play a series of one-player games and get to the higher level teams, and then you'd have to come up with a formula probably based on goals scored.
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dynamite · Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 11:14 am Post subject:

Predator wrote:

I'm interested in the Microprose Soccer vote, but how would we play it in a compo? Is there a competition version of it at all?

It's quite simple; in the outdoor version there are 16 levels in total. Scores are based on which level you get to, and tiebreakers are based on scores at the highest level you reach. That is, we score it based upon progression (we did this for Patrol Patrol a few years ago). I have the list of which team you play at each level, so it's easy to keep track of.
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dynamite · Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 11:43 am Post subject:

merman wrote:

It's not really suitable for competition play - you can play a series of one-player games and get to the higher level teams, and then you'd have to come up with a formula probably based on goals scored.

I don't agree; as with any progression based scoring, anyone who doesn't win at the highest level get's a fraction of 50 points plus the place bonus points added together.

For example, someone loses 2-0 to Brazil (the top level) and finishes 4th overall. They would get (15/16)*50 + 30 = 77pts, assuming someone higher beats Brazil. If not, they get (15/15)*50+30 = 80pts. Players who finish on the same level will have their position in the overall table determined by first goal difference at that level and then by goals scored. E.g. A loses to Brazil 0-2, B loses to Brazil 1-3, C draws with Brazil 1-1, D draws with Brazil 0-0. So they would be placed C 1st, D 2nd, B 3rd and A 4th. I can work the formula and scoring for this quite easily, IF it gets voted and if everyone is happy with the logic of it.
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Predator · Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 2:03 pm Post subject:

OK, sounds a little complicated, but seems you have a good plan, Dynamite!

Lets worry about it if it gets voted...
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Jolly_Roger · Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 4:30 pm Post subject:

Personally I'd rather not play a game instead of using a complex scoring system.But if you think it can work,then go ahead.If the game is still suitable for the competition it has the right to be voted.

dynamite · Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 6:20 pm Post subject:

Predator wrote:

OK, sounds a little complicated, but seems you have a good plan, Dynamite!

Lets worry about it if it gets voted...

Thanks, but as you say, let's worry if it get's voted.

I can understand what you say about a complex scoring system, but really it isn't. I just have a crap way of explaining simple things Smile

. Basically it's just the same method we've used in the past to score using progression.
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Predator · Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 11:37 pm Post subject:

OK my vote...

1. Summer Games
2. Raid Over Moscow
3. Microprose Soccer
4. Thing on a Spring
5. Quedex
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merman · Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 11:42 pm Post subject:

Remember to choose games suitable for competition play!

With thousands of games to choose from, surely it makes sense to make things EASIER for ourselves?
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dynamite · Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 1:14 am Post subject:

merman wrote:

Remember to choose games suitable for competition play!

With thousands of games to choose from, surely it makes sense to make things EASIER for ourselves?

I disagree that this is unsuitable for competition play, and that it adds complexity. It adds some to the scoring, but really not that much.

If we play the outdoor one-player international challenge, it has 16 progressive levels of difficulty (which I can publish all the teams at each level for), and we can use the score at the highest level you achieve as a tie-breaker. So all we have to do is use progression based scoring, which we have used in the past; there are precedents. Sure, we won't have the same granularity for 1 half of the points scoring (your score/highest score * 50), but we will have 16 levels of granularity and tiebreakers to decide where the bonus/placing points go to. With the addition of tiebreakers, it's not that much more difficult than how we normally do it.

I really have a rubbish way of explaining things simply, but I hope you get the jist of what I'm saying. And anyway, if we agree that it's not workable, then we can just play the 2nd place game in the voting (if it wins that is).
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Predator · Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 8:35 am Post subject:

I will give MS and SG a play tonight and have a serious think about their suitability. I personally like these games - hence my vote, but in Shteevs absence I'll aim to make a sensible judgement call.

Current standings:

1. Catalypse 12pts
1= Microprose Soccer 12pts
3. Summer Games 10pts
4. Rick Dangerous 9pts

Only a handful have voted so far - come on guys Smile

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Roger Frames · Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 2:55 pm Post subject:

Well, even if it's more complex, I would much rather play a football game than a shoot-em-up. So..

1. Microprose Soccer
2. Smash TV
3. Rick Dangerous
4. Zenji
5. Thing on a Spring
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merman · Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 4:01 pm Post subject:

Surely it is too easy for someone to play Microprose Soccer in stages, using save states, making it less of a challenge?

I just don't see it as a HIGH-SCORE competition game.
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shteev · Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 5:01 pm Post subject:

Allo! I was aiming to post this thread up on monday, but ended up lying in bed with flu going uuurrrggghhh. Maybe even Swine flu. Who knows. It was pretty horrible. Many thanks to Predator once again for keeping things running here.. and also to dynamite for his rather awesome Leaderboard update!

Im afraid I've never played Microprose Soccer, so I can't really comment on its feasibility as a competition game, or suggest a workable scoring system.

I'm not quite sure what you mean, merman, when you say 'save states'. When you play this game, do you play a series of individual games, unlocking higher difficulty levels as you go? (e.g. you keep playing level 1 and losing until you eventually win, and then you keep playing level 2 and losing until you eventually win... etc) Or do you play a sequence of games which ends as soon as you lose one, forcing you to return to level 1?
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Predator · Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 10:08 pm Post subject:

shteev wrote:

I'm not quite sure what you mean, merman, when you say 'save states'.

I think I understand - that you could keep playing Level 1 until you get the highest score you can e.g. 10-0, save state via the emulator and then play level 2 until you get a very high score etc etc.

This removes all the risks/skill involved in getting continuously high scores at one sitting, because as soon as you lose you restart at level 1, and it takes a great deal of practise to get consistantly high scores for each level at one sitting.

This is a good point, but the same technique could be used in any game with levels - Hawkeye for example, so we have to rely on trust and gamesmanship.

Ive thought of a slightly simpler way to score this game:
a) Level reached (1-16) x 10
b) Subtract total goals conceded along the way

e.g.

1. PlayerA reaches Level 10 and concedes 12 goals = 88 points
2. PlayerB reaches Level 9 and concedes 5 goals = 85 points
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Predator · Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 10:12 pm Post subject:

shteev wrote:

Many thanks to Predator once again for keeping things running here..

No problem - Ive enjoyed it and I'll gladly serve as 'deputy' in future Smile

I'll assume you are taking the reigns back from now on.
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dynamite · Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 11:58 pm Post subject:

Predator wrote:

shteev wrote:

I'm not quite sure what you mean, merman, when you say 'save states'.

I think I understand - that you could keep playing Level 1 until you get the highest score you can e.g. 10-0, save state via the emulator and then play level 2 until you get a very high score etc etc.

This removes all the risks/skill involved in getting continuously high scores at one sitting, because as soon as you lose you restart at level 1, and it takes a great deal of practise to get consistantly high scores for each level at one sitting.

This is a good point, but the same technique could be used in any game with levels - Hawkeye for example, so we have to rely on trust and gamesmanship.

Ive thought of a slightly simpler way to score this game:
a) Level reached (1-16) x 10
b) Subtract total goals conceded along the way

e.g.

1. PlayerA reaches Level 10 and concedes 12 goals = 88 points
2. PlayerB reaches Level 9 and concedes 5 goals = 85 points

If someone is using save states, then they aren't playing the games competition in the spirit it should be played, and really who are they cheating but themselves? There's no money or status riding on this and most of us are mature to not really give a fig if they do. As Predator pointed out, they could just as easily use save states in any game we've played in competition. They will know they have cheated, and there's always been an element of trust in these competitions anyway.

About scoring the compo, it should be done as we always score progression based scoring; (at the risk of repeating myself) your level divided by highest level reach times 50 plus whatever your placing points are. I should emphasise, that if you lose or tie in the international challenge, you have to restart for level 1, so it's just like reaching "game over" in a shoot-em-up. It scores you, but on the scores screen you only see the scores for the highest level you won against. This is why I think we should take screenshots of the result at the level you get knocked out, as this allows for much better tie-breakers.

The scoring goals idea doesn't really work, as the game only really gives you the option of tracking the result of the last game played, or the score at the level you last won. If we ended up with 5 ppl winning vs Italy (level 15) 1-0, without knowing the score vs Brazil (level 16), we wouldn't have an adequate tiebreaker. So this is why I propose my method of scoring. Hope I haven't waffled too much to make that clear Smile

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dynamite · Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 12:10 am Post subject:

shteev wrote:

Many thanks to Predator once again for keeping things running here.. and also to dynamite for his rather awesome Leaderboard update

The leaderboard is just a copy of yours mate! And if Predator hadn't put the effort in, I wouldn't have had anything to work with Smile

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