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sidplay2 in Java released
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nata
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
tell me, which setting i should use by default and

Or simply add an option in the GUI, so people can decide which setting they want to use.
To be honest, I can't hear a difference at the moment. Maybe you already use one of the quality modes?

Quote:
A prime example is darwin.sid.

Strange, it doesn't play on my C64 nor in Vice.


Last edited by nata on Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:39 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Magnate
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nata wrote:
Strange, it doesn't play on my C64 nor in Vice.

It's a sid file, and as such it's runnable in a sid files player like Sidplay2/w. As an alternative way to play it on a C64, you can run the demo Darwin by The Dreams, which contains the tune in question.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Magnate wrote:
nata wrote:
Strange, it doesn't play on my C64 nor in Vice.

It's a sid file, and as such it's runnable in a sid files player like Sidplay2/w. As an alternative way to play it on a C64, you can run the demo Darwin by The Dreams, which contains the tune in question.


I loaded it from MMC64 which allows to play sid files. But even as prg it won't play. I only get a black screen. The same happened in Vice. In Hoxs64 it works.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because you didn't crunch it. It fills too much of the memory space to load without a cartridge.

Packed prg executable.
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groepaz
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I loaded it from MMC64 which allows to play sid files.


it works on MMCReplay \o/
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nata
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nata wrote:
Here some example that is completely broken in emulators with reSID.. (Vice, Java/Sidplay...) It only plays correct on a real machine.

http://www.file-upload.net/dow...b.sid.html


.. and here the comparison between reSID and real machine.

http://www.file-upload.net/dow...ID.7z.html
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nata wrote:
Here some example that is completely broken in emulators with reSID.. (Vice, Java/Sidplay...) It only plays correct on a real machine.

http://www.file-upload.net/dow...b.sid.html

Not only — it sounds correctly in Hoxs64 emulator, too. Fixed 2 years ago in v1.0.4.5:

Quote:
16 January 2006 v1.0.4.5
========================
1) The length of time taken to reset the noise waveform via the "test bit" has been set to 7 seconds. Version 1.0.4.2 and lower never reset the noise waveform. Version 1.0.4.3 accommodated the SounDemons emulation detector test by introducing a reset delay that took a tiny fraction of a second. As a result some noise bases sid files will play correctly as they did in version 1.0.4.2

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Not only — it sounds correctly in Hoxs64 emulator, too. Fixed 2 years ago in v1.0.4.5:

Yeah, I know. Smile Hoxs64 uses his own SID emulation. All other emulations play the test file wrong.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Magnate wrote:

http://www.file-upload.net/dow...b.sid.html

Not only — it sounds correctly in Hoxs64 emulator, too. Fixed 2 years ago in v1.0.4.5:
[/quote]
Does anyone know him (maker of hoxs64),
I wrote him once, but he seems do ignore me.
If so, then tell him, that I am not a competitor. I only want to hear SID music at best results in a Java player.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could you change in \resid\Filter.java at line 951

Code:
 _1024_div_Q = (int) /* static_cast<sound_sample> */(1024.0 / (0.707 + 1.0 * res / 0x0f));

the following parameter from..
Code:
 + 1.0 * res

to..
Code:
 + 2.3 * res

This will make Filter resonance close to a real SID.


Some other issues:

- SID distortion is ON by default for the 8580. It must be OFF, since the new SID doesn't distort.

- The buttons for muted voices aren't resetted if song or subtune changes.

Btw. Could you add the option for the digi-boosted 8580 SID and a switch between 6581 R1/R4 filters?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
This will make Filter resonance close to a real SID


except this varies wildly between individual sids.....if anything, it should be a user adjustable parameter.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

groepaz wrote:
Quote:
This will make Filter resonance close to a real SID


except this varies wildly between individual sids.....if anything, it should be a user adjustable parameter.


Are you sure? The resonance of all my SID's (6581, 8580 doesn't matter) is the same.

Can you show us an example?

Quote:
should be a user adjustable parameter

Yeah, that would be a solution.. just to be on the safe side. Smile
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Are you sure? The resonance of all my SID's (6581, 8580 doesn't matter) is the same.


and you measured that....how?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I only want to hear SID music at best results in a Java player.


A real unmodded 8580 SID (I took a C64G as reference model) picks up a lot of noise from the PCB, VICII, and the external input. This noise has quite a huge influence on the filters characteristic. (Please look at picture one)

The second picture reflects a SID with almost perfect noise reduction. But the filter sounds a lot different. It is almost clean.

Picture 3: Hoxs64 sounds more ore less the same as a noise-reduced SID. Well good so far, it's a digital reproduction...

ReSID's output isn't that good compared to Hoxs64. (Picture 4) See all the strange 'patterns' in the spectral analysis. It is even audible.
Current reSID filter implementation tends to adulterate the output in some negative way. I'm not sure, but due this *maybe* filters resonance seems to sound slightly too low compared to a real SID.



about sidplay2.ini

'FilterStockResid6581' together with distortion it seems to give at the moment the most realistic sound.

'Filter6581R4HighRes' has quite a different sounding cut-off characteristic. You won't find too many tunes that sounds OK with this emulation. Tons of songs are extremely "overfiltered" and broken.

'Filter6581R1HighRes' to my surprise this setting seems not to apply, if I select it in the ini.

Maybe an option in GUI is possible to control the distortion-Threshold, Steepness, Lp, Bp and Hp? So it will be very easy to find realistic (or at least good sounding) distortion values for the majority of songs.

Magnate wrote:
nata wrote:
Here some example that is completely broken in emulators with reSID.. (Vice, Java/Sidplay...) It only plays correct on a real machine.

http://www.file-upload.net/dow...b.sid.html

Not only — it sounds correctly in Hoxs64 emulator, too. Fixed 2 years ago in v1.0.4.5:

Quote:
16 January 2006 v1.0.4.5
========================
1) The length of time taken to reset the noise waveform via the "test bit" has been set to 7 seconds. Version 1.0.4.2 and lower never reset the noise waveform. Version 1.0.4.3 accommodated the SounDemons emulation detector test by introducing a reset delay that took a tiny fraction of a second. As a result some noise bases sid files will play correctly as they did in version 1.0.4.2


Hmm, it seems that it hasn't something to do with 'Soundemons' waves.
This feature is already included, but maybe not fully emulated. See the code in WaveformGenerator.java

Quote:
* SounDemoN found out that test bit can be used to control the
* noise register. Hear the result in Bojojoing.sid.


And still my example fails to play correctly in Java Sidplay.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nata wrote:
Hmm, it seems that it hasn't something to do with 'Soundemons' waves. This feature is already included, but maybe not fully emulated. See the code in WaveformGenerator.java

Quote:
* SounDemoN found out that test bit can be used to control the
* noise register. Hear the result in Bojojoing.sid.


And still my example fails to play correctly in Java Sidplay.

It does have to do with "SounDemon's" waveforms, they both operate on the noise waveform. Your example sounds better in Hoxs64 v1.0.4.5 than with v1.0.4.4. If you want a more sensitive example, check out the hilarious "tune" in Design for Free.

Quote:
As a result some noise bases sid files will play correctly as they did in version 1.0.4.2


Your file won't sound correctly just because the test bit is adjusted for Bojojoing, it might need some more fine-tuning — David shared quite a few clues in the release notes.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If you want a more sensitive example, check out the hilarious "tune" in Design for Free.

There seems not to be a difference between real thing & emulator.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now i updated the beta version, changes are:
1. A settings tab was added to configure the SIDs.
2. distortion is turned off if SID8580 and turned on else. It can be deselected for SID6581.
3. Selectable filters for each SID model.
Now you can define several filters in INI file and choose them in the GUI.
An additional INI entry must be configured to define which filters can be selected.
====add in INI file=====
[Emulation]
; These are the filters chosen in the GUI of JSidplay2.
FilterList6581=FilterStockResid6581,Filter6581R1HighRes,Filter6581R4HighRes
FilterList8580=
...
====END add in INI file=====
4. The factor for the resonance can be set on the settings tab. (0.1<factor<9.9)
Change the default value in the INI file for each filter setting, for example:
====add in INI file=====
[FilterStockResid6581]
ResonanceFactor=2.3
...
====END add in INI file=====
5. Some GUI bugs fixed, too.


If you are unsure with the INI file, remove it (~/sidplay2.ini or c:/users/name/sidplay2.ini) and restart player.
Then it is created with all needed settings.

Thank you for your suggestions!
The distortion properties can not be changed for now, but i will add this next.

Best regards, Ken
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone has an idea how to edit the SID filter points?
I dont understand the theoretical background to choose the right editor
for the SID filter.
In the source there is something documented, like splines, interpolation
and so on.
I would like to have a graphical representation of the filter curve (defined by the filter points in the INI file)
and edit functionality to change the curve with the mouse button.
Any ideas someone?

Between, i have added the distortion settings to the player.
But they cannot be saved by now and will reset if you change the tune or filter settings.

Best regards,
Ken
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now i corrected the PSID tunes in sidplay2.
Galways PSIDs work now (Arkanoid, GameOver, etc.)
Smile
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Guys,

i have added the newest version of the Antti Lankila Patch 6.2.2008.
Also you can choose now the filter option "<no_filter>" and two additional examples for each SID model.

The INI file was changed again, so be sure to remove it (in your user directory) and let the player create a new one.

Nice week-end Very Happy
Ken
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe it would be interesting to see the songlengths on the screen and an option to disable it temporary.

Will it be possible to record waves directly in the GUI?

Btw. Now with the digi-boosted 8580 it's possible to mute channels 1-3 without affecting the digi-channel. Smile

Edit: In the latest beta the 8580 filters are disabled by default. (sounds are unfiltered)
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Nata,

Next beta is now available.
Changes are:
Timer section added in the GUI.
Support of song length database in the GUI plus enable/disable.
Antti Lankila Patch 08.02.2008 added.
Choose HVSC directory in the GUI. (a little bit ugly right now)
Minimum Test class for sidplay2 added.

Currently saving the GUI values to INI file is still missing Sad
and recording wave files, too.

But so far for today!?

You must remove INI file this time again, Antti Lankila Patch makes it a necessity.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ähm, sorry i forgot:
what filter should be selectable for 8580?
The filters of Antti are only 6581 Confused
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenchis wrote:
Ähm, sorry i forgot:
what filter should be selectable for 8580?
The filters of Antti are only 6581 Confused


It is in Filter.java

Code:
   // ----------------------------
         { 0, 0 }, // 0x00 - repeated end point
         { 0, 0 }, // 0x00
         { 128, 800 }, // 0x10
         { 256, 1600 }, // 0x20
         { 384, 2500 }, // 0x30
         { 512, 3300 }, // 0x40
         { 640, 4100 }, // 0x50
         { 768, 4800 }, // 0x60
         { 896, 5600 }, // 0x70
         { 1024, 6500 }, // 0x80
         { 1152, 7500 }, // 0x90
         { 1280, 8400 }, // 0xa0
         { 1408, 9200 }, // 0xb0
         { 1536, 9800 }, // 0xc0
         { 1664, 10500 }, // 0xd0
         { 1792, 11000 }, // 0xe0
         { 1920, 11700 }, // 0xf0
         { 2047, 12500 }, // 0xff 0x07
         { 2047, 12500 } // 0xff 0x07 - repeated end point


Quote:
Next beta is now available.
Changes are:
Timer section added in the GUI.
Support of song length database in the GUI plus enable/disable.
Antti Lankila Patch 08.02.2008 added.
Choose HVSC directory in the GUI. (a little bit ugly right now)
Minimum Test class for sidplay2 added.


Works perfect. Thanks Kenchis!
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Code:
$ java -jar jsidplay2.jar
Using configfile sidid.cfg
#
# An unexpected error has been detected by Java Runtime Environment:
#
#  SIGSEGV (0xb) at pc=0x000000361042eb14, pid=25275, tid=1076021584
#
# Java VM: Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (1.6.0_03-b05 mixed mode)
# Problematic frame:
# C  [libc.so.6+0x2eb14]  catgets+0x14
#
# An error report file with more information is saved as hs_err_pid25275.log
#
# If you would like to submit a bug report, please visit:
#   http://java.sun.com/webapps/bugreport/crash.jsp
#


Sad
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