Another thing which I forgot: the loading/caching system of script, text & graphics "assets" (how I hate that word, brings to mind other todays' gameindustry buzzwords) needs to be quite ninja.

I think it will not be as simple as having a static bunch of stuff loaded in the memory for each screen, 'cos you revisit places with different things happening and some scenes can be quite long with a lot of text & actions.

Ok, First i must state: I havent read the hole thread. Im aware that my suggestion can be stupid, ignorant and dumb. So please delete this if so. BUT, as ZacMackracken and Manic Mansion exist on the c64 the scumm intepretator must be inplanted already! So, why not "lift" the intepretator out of one of these games and build the engine around that?! yeah, I know its a damn lot of hard work to pull that off. But MABY it would be the way to go?
Icon bows for the bottles...
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Stefan throws a full bottle of beer to Icon. (now I hope he catches it)
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From scummvm.org:

Quote:

What versions of SCUMM are there available? .. The first LucasArts adventure games used an unknown format that is now lost with time. We will ignore it because it wasn't really SCUMM as we know it know, wasn't very good, anyway, and only worked on the Commodore 64. The first PC versions started with V2 and a variation of the V1 format. With Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, LucasArts developed a modular file format based loosely on the standard IFF format. This was used several times in various forms until The Secret of Monkey Island, where the SCUMM engine and file format was redesigned from scratch. The new format was used from then on, and vestiges of It are still visible in the latest LucasArts games such as Grim Fandango.

So, MI is 2 major version updates away from C64 SCUMM games.

Well, to me Icon's idea sounds reasonable but Zak and Maniac Mansion were missing the Talk To option and I'm guessing that might cause a bit of a problem??
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Using Icon's suggestion.. you'll have to reverse-engineer an unknown engine with an unknown dataformat (as described in the above quote, scummvm doesn't help here), then you proceed to rewrite all of MI's script using that dataformat

IMO, that's even worse than writing your own script interpreter (not SCUMM) from scratch, and then rewriting whole MI using that.

Least amount of work (of course still a lot) would be to build a working
SCUMM v4.0.67 (EGA) or v5.0.19 (VGA) - the versions that MI is using - interpreter on C64, take the script data directly and adapt/convert the graphics data as needed. Though, I don't know if those particular versions of the interpreter require too much runtime memory to exist on C64.

Ah, you must've posted that while I was writing my post or something or I just didn't notice it before.

Silly me
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ScummVM source is 13.1 megs on disk in C. How much did this solve the problem of having a working SCUMM on c64 ?

As long as you have not even an idea of how it could be translated to c64 this project is senseless.

We would need someone of the autohors of scummvm, to help us extract only the key elements from ScummVM that we need for MI.

You can play with graphics and ideas but this project is doomed to die without scumm, and without a coder.

just like every other project then
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Its just fun

Most of us our busy on real projects, and do not have the time nor misguided sense of self purpose to even pretend that anything is going to happen.

But doing this stuff gets people thinking about how it could be done, how it would've been done, and people have the opportunity to use their mostly dorment c64 technical knowledge.

I get the same kick from the restrictions of c64 graphics now as I did back in the day. And I've had so much fun over the last few days. I've discovered that Photoshop's layers and 'Select by color range' make bitmaps so much easier to carve up into character blocks. And despite being made for other platforms, Tile Studio is also perfect for reconstructing the blocks.

Its just for fun, but I can understand if this topic is starting to get a little long in the tooth!

come on now, dont be a tease... make the monkey island for the c64... we need topnotch games again ... is it a £400 bounty that is needed to get this project started?

Sorry, better not start mentioning money 'cos that's an insultingly small amount for a year or more of work. (I take that you were serious because there was no smiley at the end, if you weren't, sorry again)

C64 coders are motivated by passion for what they themselves want to do, no coercing can realistically happen.

(Btw. I and others have repeated that so many times that it'd be nice to have it in a Lemon FAQ somewhere in a visible place... while I have nothing against theoretical discussion of gameprojects, which is how I take this thread too)

it was just a suggestion, its not needed to throw me on the fire like a mad witch or something...

I don't mind discussing and thinking of this as a learning project.
I see it started 2.5 years ago, so.

What I understand it's doable and can be made quite nicely(my opinion), at the c64.
but :
1: Certain gfx issues, modes/ scrollers (apparently no prob. (ofcourse, all data is easy when you know howto) to make) needs to be solved.
2: The talk about the scumm scripting thingy is more or less a waste to discuss if it's that much bother, make a new one for MI-c64. The way I see it (boldlynoobishlyofcourse), it's designed to make it efficient to set up the game, basicly have a bunch of copy and past pages ready in the left side to the right side (or contraverse lol ) of screen, fill in paramas and words:)
When I "departed"(really want to write disassembled, but that would be the wrong word as there where no or little code-reversing related) Lasse's MetalWarrior which sized about 74KB I ended with a work folder at 2 GB. So how big a scriptertool is or is not have less to say....
If it writes to large code, it's not much use on c64
which brings me to the last point:
3: Going throu all material, scenery and the other detailed work, step by step is an enourmous work unless you manage to hack or crack MI game or get the source script with permission to make a c64 version.

Since noone here knows nothing about cracking games and reading crypted gamesources, someone with game making experience or relevant could write a nice letter to whom it may conserne and ask if the source script / work / plot etc to be released.
Or some one like myself can take the gameplay/scenery noting (Godhelpusall) and mapping it out .... (or partly)
or or or(is that illegal reversenginering?) ...
otherwise
return to gosub

and (ofcourse)
If we are really making it without the permission, I think it should be named MoneyIceland or something, so someone dosn't get yelled at (just incase)
And I can't belive they will have any thoughts about a fanmade-c64 version of the game anyway ? or is that been discussed allready ?

and ++
please don't throw any ldx ¤### stda ¤### stuff in my face, cause I don't get it, I don't know how to do any of this in low level which I guess main code should be done in , dunno how to plot a dot even on screen ....
If someone likes to set up a sub forum or something to get it started, dividing things up in workloads, voluntares can join or not. There are no time or work pressure, only a place to share sources/ codes... etc...
By reading this thread I've allready gotten some pointers of what may or may not be clever.
Not sure if RichardofTND would mind such in his forum or this could evolve further here in this thread ?

superoftopic:
And did SirKid return ?
Is he gotten any better ?
Noted he started it
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I just wonder if anyone had started working on this "project"? It would make SirKidd a happy man in heaven if it were ever to see the light of day.
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If you really want to play this game then you can download it for the PC and play it in a dosbox.
what would be the point in re-writing it for the C64 now ?
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Why do men climb mountains?
Because they're there.
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